MTSF Resourcing and Pay Protection??

[Nevster]

Are there any reps on here who understand the above mentioned parts of the MTSF agreement.
I ask because I work for Distribution in a mail centre And although I have almost 24 years seniority I am a reserve,this is due to me being transfered from Supply Chain(used to be called cashco and rems before that)under the MTSF because of the reintegration of SafeNet back in to Royal Mail just over a year ago.
I have been covering a vacant duty plus an acting managers original duty since I started at the mail centre.

Over the last few months I have been asking my managers and reps when the vacant duties would be put up for signing, there were three vacant duties and i was just told it would be soon.Since then four other members of staff have had their duties changed. One of these duties has gone altogether, absorbed by the other three.The staff affected have been taken off of these duties. The changed duties have been put up as a vacant duty resign along with the other three vacant duties, including the one I was covering. Now from what I can understand the staff with allowances who are displaced are allowed to pick first so they can pick the duties that attract the same allowances so they do not lose any money.Two have done this no problems there.The other two affected staff have decided they do not want to pick the duties that attract the allowances, losing there pay protection and have picked two of the other duties including the one that I was covering,they both have lower seniority than I do, I also put my name down for these two duties but the duties have been given to them. My question is if they have opted not to take the duties that attract the allowances, and it has been their choice not to take pay protection that this would give them, should they have been allowed to pick the other two duties ahead of seniority?
My area rep believes that they should be allowed, my local shift rep and i believe that seniority should stand.

Sorry it's a bit longwinded I hope you can understand what i mean.

[postie222]

I agree with you as pay protection does not come into it then it should be senority. Unless selection by skills which driving posts are not covered by this.You need to look at the way forward paragrapgh below, yes it still stands on this account. I take it you and the other people are full time ?

Seniority will be used to fill the majority of jobs, because the Business recognises the value of employees‟ experience and length of service. Those jobs that require more specialist skills have been identified and are listed at Section 15. They will be filled using an objectively-based selection process. The necessary training will be given prior to appointment”.

[Nevster]

Yes we are all full time staff.
I forgot to mention that since I have been here I have been placed at the bottom of the reseve list, but reserves are not allocated work in seniority, all other reserves have a number next to them on the duty allocation sheets ie: Reserve1, Reseve2 etc, all the way down to me I have SPLDuty next to my name. Would this be because I have come back to Royal Mail Distribution from another part of the business, am I still surplus staff because they were forced to make space for me when the Safenet work was taken back?

Their point of view is that because they have been displaced and they were duty holders they pick first even if they dont want pay protection, and that I did not lose my duty at this office.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Nevster,

I think you are right. MtSF states that a redeployed member of staff should accept a job that is suitable and reasonable:

http://www.cwunorthern.co.uk/MTSF09.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In theory,the two people who do not want the duties offered to them can be sacked without compensation. It looks like management (including your area rep) are allowing them to jump the seniority queue because they haven't read the agreement properly.

[Nevster]

I have been trying to disect the MTSF but it seems to be about as clear as mud regarding this situation. My area rep has said "Pay protection first starting with the highest earner down to the lowest and they can pick what they want and it is there choice if they want to pick a duty that means they lose there allowances." I don't think this is right.

[NWpostie]

If you transfer to another location, do you still keep your MTSF pay ? if it has some left to go say 2 years.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The four displaced people should have only been offered a choice of four duties to pick and those duties should have been the ones closest to their original terms and conditions, "vacancies should be offered in a way that involve least loss of allowance (ie. highest earning shifts/jobs first)." Management were wrong to offer a choice of six duties to the displaced four.

"Employees are expected to accept an offer of suitable alternative employment where it is reasonable to do so and where the alternative job offered is expected to last for a period of not less than twelve months."

Nevster is arguing that he is being disadvantaged because he can't pick the duty he wants to because two displaced employees have effectively been allowed to refuse an offer of suitable alternative employment and pick the duties that Nevster wanted.

Nevster, put in this grievance:

"Two of my colleagues have effectively been allowed to refuse an offer of suitable alternative employment contrary to the redeployment process of MtSF and have chosen duties that seniority had put me in line for. I feel I have been unfairly denied the opportunity to pick one of these duties."

Good Luck.

[MinisterofCucumber]

If you transfer to another location, do you still keep your MTSF pay ? if it has some left to go say 2 years.

5.1.1: " For the avoidance of doubt where an employee is already in receipt of reserved rights this will continue to apply for its full duration."

Hope that helps.

[NWpostie]

If you transfer to another location, do you still keep your MTSF pay ? if it has some left to go say 2 years.

5.1.1: " For the avoidance of doubt where an employee is already in receipt of reserved rights this will continue to apply for its full duration."

Hope that helps.

Thanks that cleared one question up, I also have a shift allowance that was preserved as grandfathers rights, when my night shift start time changed, do i still keep that on transfer ?

[Nevster]

The four displaced people should have only been offered a choice of four duties to pick and those duties should have been the ones closest to their original terms and conditions, "vacancies should be offered in a way that involve least loss of allowance (ie. highest earning shifts/jobs first)." Management were wrong to offer a choice of six duties to the displaced four.

"Employees are expected to accept an offer of suitable alternative employment where it is reasonable to do so and where the alternative job offered is expected to last for a period of not less than twelve months."

Nevster is arguing that he is being disadvantaged because he can't pick the duty he wants to because two displaced employees have effectively been allowed to refuse an offer of suitable alternative employment and pick the duties that Nevster wanted.

Nevster, put in this grievance:

"Two of my colleagues have effectively been allowed to refuse an offer of suitable alternative employment contrary to the redeployment process of MtSF and have chosen duties that seniority had put me in line for. I feel I have been unfairly denied the opportunity to pick one of these duties."

Good Luck.

MinisterofCucumber thanks for this you understand exactly where I am coming from but I cant find anything that refers to the the part about the offered duties must last longer than 12 months though. I have been told that the duties I went for "will proberbly be gone in the revisions that are going to happen later this year anyway." I am happy with this as I will just pick another duty when we have a full resign.

I have done a bit more digging and this is what I have found out . The line manager did the allocation of duties for the vacancies, I always thought this was a reps job. When I questioned my local rep he shrugged his shoulders and told me "I do not know why this happened" but he agreed with me on the way it should have been done as he sees it.

I then questioned the line manager involved and he told me that the rep agreed to it but left him to get on with it. Also he was told to do it this way by his manager.He also told me that originally he thought that I was going to get the duty I had applied for until he was told to do it the other way.

I then questioned the line managers manager, he told me all he was worried about were the first two who picked pay protection duties after that he didn't care about the others and that the rep had been involved. He did not know why the line manager and the rep did not work together.

I then went back to the rep and asked him why,if he thought it was not being done properly,he hadn't jumped all over it, he replied that he was waiting for someone to complain. So it looks like if I hadn't raised any questions he would have let it go. Now he has asked me to put my complaints in writing to help him.

I also spoke to both of the other postmen who decided not to take the duties without allowances. They told me they were not informed that they would lose any allowances if they picked other duties until after they were given them. Seems like a complete mess from start to finish and I feel that somewhere between the three of them the whole truth is not coming out.

After all this it looks like I may be called into a meeting next week with all involved to try and reslove the matter. The only thing I am concerned about is the area rep,who was not involved in any of this, as he thinks that the way it has been done is correct as he will surely be brought into it now.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Nevster,

The first rule of dealing with these c unts is to get everything in writing. Only speak to them face to face to gather information about their characters.

Your grievance is against your line manager who offered a choice of 6 duties to your 4 displaced workmates. He should have only offered 4.

You can raise a stage 2 grievance with your line manager's manager. If you don't get a satisfactory outcome in 5 working days, you can raise a stage 3 grievance.

Good luck.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 36&t=23453" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MinisterofCucumber]

NWpostie wrote:

"Thanks that cleared one question up, I also have a shift allowance that was preserved as grandfathers rights, when my night shift start time changed, do i still keep that on transfer ?"

Pay protection covers basic pay, pensionable allowances and regional pay. If grandfathers' rights are pensionable, they will be covered.

[NWpostie]

it is pensionable, Thank you, MofC, you have cleared my mind on a few things.

[Nevster]

Thank you all for the good advice,the situation has been sorted now and I got the duty that I wanted.