Dismissed for not being in top 10%

[gb93]

When (if) this new agreement comes in as agreed by CWU & RM and finally members after long awaited ballot.

When will first postie (probably FT) be suspended/dismissed for not being in top 10% performance standard.

And will the CWU be able or willing to represent said postie effectively as RM will be acting within agreement with CWU.

Scaremongaring,far fetched,Not in spirit of agreement ? DISCUSS.

[k979aaa]

When (if) this new agreement comes in as agreed by CWU & RM and finally members after long awaited ballot.

When will first postie (probably FT) be suspended/dismissed for not being in top 10% performance standard.

And will the CWU be able or willing to represent said postie effectively as RM will be acting within agreement with CWU.

Scaremongaring,far fetched,Not in spirit of agreement ? DISCUSS.

All i will say is :cfo is in the top 1% of high earners? for doing feck all but expects us to run around like blue ass flies for a near minimum wage!.

[Delivery Donkey]

i raised this with the DIM,he said it's not an individual 10%,it's as an office OR unit 10%,i did show him the paragraph
And it can and i'm sure will be taken both ways and used as another stick to beat us with.

[gb93]

Same answer i got Delivery Donkey, but it clearly states EVERYBODY up to top 10% in agreement.

It sure takes "a huge leap of faith" to believe some DOMS wont use this against individuals.

[k979aaa]

i raised this with the DIM,he said it's not an individual 10%,it's as an office OR unit 10%,i did show him the paragraph
And it can and i'm sure will be taken both ways and used as another stick to beat us with.

So will they sack the whole office?. No just get rid of some of the staff posties and managers and move us all around till they get their balance and change the goal post yet once again!. If you think a % of anything is an ever changing goal it is as such the road to ruin for all who work for royalmail!.

[headscrewedon]

For gawd's sake, even if a DIM threatened to interpret the wording as meaning everyone in the office has to perform to the standard of the top 10% in that office, it wouldn't be difficult to put up a good argument.

All you need are 2 brain cells. (That immediately puts you at a distinct advantage). Then lead the DIM into a debate along lines something like this:

DIM: You are not performing at the same standard as the top 10% of postman in this office.
YOU: Fine. So sack me, then.
DIM: I might just do that.
YOU: Fine. But there are 100 people in this office. Which means, according to you, that there are 89 other individuals who are also not in the top 10%, performance-wise. Are you going to sack them too ?
DIM: Errrmmmm....
YOU: Well you're going to have to, I'm afraid.
DIM (his brain cell getting strained): Why would I do that ? This chat is about your performance, not theirs.
YOU: Well if their performance is equally below-par, and you don't sack them too, I am going to have your @rse on a skewer at an employment tribunal, for blatantly unfair dismissal. And when you lose that case, as you surely will, your career in RM will be down the toilet as you will have lost RM a lot of money fighting a ridiculously flawed case.
DIM (clutching at straws now): Hah, you won't get the union to back you. They signed up to these performance standards !
YOU: Listen, a no-win no-fee lawyer would make mincemeat of RM in these circumstances. 90 people not performing to standard and you sack just one of them ?
DIM: Errrmmmm....
YOU: Listen, can I go back to my frame now ? Much as I would like to stay and continue our battle of wits, it really would not be fair as you are clearly unarmed in that department, and you have 89 other people to chat to

[gb93]

A question headscrewdon, or maybe 2.

How much compensation would you get if a IT found you unfairly dismissed.

How much in wages would RM save on a FT postie with say 30 years left.

Could be big pat on back for DOM and promotion for saving RM hundreds of thousands.

[headscrewedon]

A question headscrewdon, or maybe 2.

How much compensation would you get if a IT found you unfairly dismissed.
MEGABUCKS, AND YOUR JOB BACK.

How much in wages would RM save on a FT postie with say 30 years left.
None, because you'd win the case. Especially if - via info posted on here - you found other individuals in other offices who'd also been singled-out for dismissal. Get your lawyer to talk to the others' lawyers and to write to RM suggesting they settle this matter out-of-court before you all expose their tactics to the glare of the media.

Could be big pat on back for DOM and promotion for saving RM hundreds of thousands.
Could be demoted back into blues where I'm sure none of the lads would ask 'were you not in the top 10% of managers, then ?'

[gb93]

To answer my own question.

I think £10,000 absolute tops and no job back.

But this is only my opinion i could be wrong, wouldnt want to have to find out.

But again only my opinion, this agreement makes this scenario more possible for 90% of staff.

Scares me enough to think about voting no.

[k979aaa]

To answer my own question.

I think £10,000 absolute tops and no job back.

But this is only my opinion i could be wrong, wouldnt want to have to find out.

But again only my opinion, this agreement makes this scenario more possible for 90% of staff.

Scares me enough to think about voting no.

For what can this agreement gain us a few hundred pounds which we already should get or a life time of uncertainty!.

[headscrewedon]

I think £10,000 absolute tops and no job back.

To answer that, and a previous scenario....

If a postman who would otherwise have had 30yrs of service left was unfairly dismissed, and the tribunal found in his favour, I very much doubt it would be as little as £10,000 awarded. You only have to have a basic grasp of maths to see that £10k is substantially less than 1yrs pay. A person who won such a case could then use the 'unfairly dismissed' verdict to sue RM for loss of future earnings & pension in a civil court, if the tribunal itself had awarded such a derisory sum, surely ?

[gb93]

Lets all go and get unfairly dismissed we will be quids in

Hey you have changed my thinking headscrewed, this top 10% thing is the best news ever for posties.It is the "deal of the century".

Got to go and look for a holiday home in florida incase i am lucky and get unfairly dismissed .

Its all about opinions, enjoyed the back and forth on subject hope no offence caused or taken.

[Big Daz]

Big Dave told a audience of reps last friday its not individual, I intend to see him make sure RML dont try it on.

Each and every one of us can now fully expect back up all the way if a DOM trys it on.

[Tman]

I don't know whether some non-comprehending DOM will try it on with some under-performing individual, but isn't the "top 10%" supposed to be a target bench-mark for the others to possibly learn something from, rather than a stick to beat them with?
In the football context, Man U and Chelski are the top 10%, but clearly however much Pompey, Hull and Burnley would like or strive to be like them, it's not possible.
By definition and comparison a top 10% must mean another 90% who aren't top, and that's the way it will always be.
Any worthwhile target should be agreed by prior arrangment at the outset and achievable with effort by all participants, rather than just a nonsensical top vs bottom over-simplistic statement.

[MinisterofCucumber]

I think £10,000 absolute tops and no job back.

To answer that, and a previous scenario....

If a postman who would otherwise have had 30yrs of service left was unfairly dismissed, and the tribunal found in his favour, I very much doubt it would be as little as £10,000 awarded. You only have to have a basic grasp of maths to see that £10k is substantially less than 1yrs pay. A person who won such a case could then use the 'unfairly dismissed' verdict to sue RM for loss of future earnings & pension in a civil court, if the tribunal itself had awarded such a derisory sum, surely ?

The maximum award for unfair dismissal is £65,300:

http://justemploymentlaw.com/employment ... imits-2010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's about 4 or 5 years pay tops.

Also, a Ministry of Justice study found that only 2% of claimants were made awards of over £50,000 and 35% of unfair dismissal awards were not paid at all. If you win a tribunal award there is no guarantee that you can get the money out of your employer:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/employment-tr ... awards.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;