PASSIONS AROUND THE 2010 PROPOSED DEAL

[TrueBlueTerrier]

OK Final warning, I know passions are high about this deal some see it as the Saviour of Royal Mail, some see it as the destruction of the CWU, and some think the CWU have sold us out. My own take on it is somewhere in the middle of that lot.

However, calling people names and using abusive terms is against the rules of this board and to be frank because of the passions raised by this deal we have let it slide a little. Unfortunately just like Royal Mail, give some an inch and they take a mile.

From now on we will be enforcing the no abuse, no name calling and no B&H behaviour. So if a post disappears or changes its because it broke the rules. Do not bother starting a thread about free speech because we have done that subject to death and it will be deleted. Any really OTT breaches will result in either a warning or a ban.

Remember if you abuse people just because they disagree with your point of view, or have changed their minds, it does not strengthen your argument, it weakens it. It is also unlikely to change someone's mind, in fact its more likely you will entrench their views.

[Big Daz]

Im having plenty of disscussion, debate and arguments around the proposed agreement at work, but nobody is falling out with anybody.

The very fact that mbrs are taking such a strong interest and this will hopefully lead to a good turnout from my D.O for the vote is very pleasing.

Its essential everybody knows the reasoning behind the proposed changes, once they have that reasoning they can decide if its good enough reason for the change that is proposed.

[Jolly Roger]

OK Final warning, I know passions are high about this deal some see it as the Saviour of Royal Mail, some see it as the destruction of the CWU, and some think the CWU have sold us out. My own take on it is somewhere in the middle of that lot.

However, calling people names and using abusive terms is against the rules of this board and to be frank because of the passions raised by this deal we have let it slide a little. Unfortunately just like Royal Mail, give some an inch and they take a mile.

From now on we will be enforcing the no abuse, no name calling and no B&H behaviour. So if a post disappears or changes its because it broke the rules. Do not bother starting a thread about free speech because we have done that subject to death and it will be deleted. Any really OTT breaches will result in either a warning or a ban.

Remember if you abuse people just because they disagree with your point of view, or have changed their minds, it does not strengthen your argument, it weakens it. It is also unlikely to change someone's mind, in fact its more likely you will entrench their views.

Green yes ?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Well Yes I suppose so.

[postino]

I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST MEMBERS LOOK AT THE FIGURES WITHING MY OWN OBSERVATION

THE "DEAL" AS I SEE IT IS:

£20.60 FOR 52 WEEKS A YEAR.. = £1071.20 PER ANNUM

HOWEVER YOU LOSE £12.37 NS ALLOWANCE PER WEEK ..= -£643.24 PER ANNUM

THEREFORE £1071.20
MINUS 643.24
LEAVES 427.96

ASSUMING 4 WEEKS XMAS WITHOUT HDS
5 WEEKS LEAVE
2 WEEKS SICK LEAVE AVERAGE

WHICH WOULD BE 11 WEEKS @£20.60

MEANING AN EXTRA £226.60

SO ADD TOGETHER £427.96
£226.60
£654.56

IT APPEARS YOU ARE BETTER OFF BY £11.32 PER ANNUM ON THIS "DEAL" AS THE £654.56 REPLACES THE YEARLY £643.24 IN NIGHT SHIFT ALLOWANCE YOU HAVE LOST ( BUT YOU END UP DELIVERING ANY NUMBER OF HDS FOR "FREE") OR AM I MISSING SOMETHING ??????

[brookside]

Yes i think you are missing something, try working it out on an average of 3 d2d per week paying an average of say £21.00 per week and you may find that you're out of pocket to the tune of £570.00 per year plus you will be delivering many more per week for £20.60, so royal mail comes up trumps again.

[postiereg]

the main debate is about the loss of our d2d payments. our manager has told us that Royal Mail are looking into putting all the leaflets into one envelope, this would mean you will only get one payment of 1.67p or what ever it weighs. so if this is the case we wont be that badly off as we dont get £8.60 for each item now. we asked what the time scale is and were told January 2011. the other thing to think about is that their are areas of the country that dont get any d2d items so they will vote yes as it is a pay rise to them

[Big Daz]

The amount of DTD money earned can vary a lot between us.

Annual leave plays a part, the more leave you have the less DTD you deliver over a year

The type of delivery plays a part, a urban delivery going to lots of flats will have more calls than a rural with delivery points very spaced out and in the region of 200-300 DTD calls.

Hybrid deliveries part buissness part residential, that keep the amount of DTD earned down.


In terms of better or worse off those who dont get shift allowance or get the £6.18 pro rata through being PT dont have as much to loose as a FT getting the £12.37


My ESA is £4.65 and the 2% increase on basic for my 30 hour week is £5.20

Many different variables, reminds me of the way forward changes to shift money and UPAP.

[danjaruss]

I came up with an idea. Lets meet this crap deal half way. The first three d2d's we do for nothing( I was told royal mail pay out 50 odd million quid in payments for the first three at present), then we get paid for the rest if they only produce average of 3 they are quids in if they start taking the p**s out of us they will have to pay for it that would make them think twice about flooding us with 10 plus items

[LJR]

I came up with an idea. Lets meet this crap deal half way. The first three d2d's we do for nothing( I was told royal mail pay out 50 odd million quid in payments for the first three at present), then we get paid for the rest if they only produce average of 3 they are quids in if they start taking the p**s out of us they will have to pay for it that would make them think twice about flooding us with 10 plus items

Thats not such a bad idea. It may make managers in say London get them out rather than lose the contracts over a course of years because they cant manage so they have now have very few because they fail because they cut the staff so much they have to make cuts so D2Ds are the first to go in the waste sacks. This is not a dig at London Posties but their management that have allowed this cash to go down the pan because they want their savings and as anyone that does 2 or 3 D2Ds will tell you it gives us at least an hour O/T a week on top of payment because it affects call rate no matter what RM and the CWU say. London and other major cities have a wealth of this sort of thing and the likes of TNT are tapping into it because as a major broker for RM they know our weaknesses allowing them to get their foot in the door.

[brookstar]

yeah, everything seems to be about d2d this is only one point of this agreement a sticking point granted but what about 3 & 4 o'clock finish on saturday taking away our " more leisure time with our families " according to royal mail this is what the public want, well who's been out there and sourced this imformation because the folk on my round are up in arms that they wont get there post while later when they need to be off doing what they have to do. Also where does health & safety stand on this as opposed to 3 / 3.5 hr deliveries now we can do 5 / 6 hr deliveries i don't get it as there still wont be any toilets or shop on my round.

[potters]

yeah, everything seems to be about d2d this is only one point of this agreement a sticking point granted but what about 3 & 4 o'clock finish on saturday taking away our " more leisure time with our families " according to royal mail this is what the public want, well who's been out there and sourced this imformation because the folk on my round are up in arms that they wont get there post while later when they need to be off doing what they have to do. Also where does health & safety stand on this as opposed to 3 / 3.5 hr deliveries now we can do 5 / 6 hr deliveries i don't get it as there still wont be any toilets or shop on my round.

what firms and the public want is there early delivery back..

[LJR]

yeah, everything seems to be about d2d this is only one point of this agreement a sticking point granted but what about 3 & 4 o'clock finish on saturday taking away our " more leisure time with our families " according to royal mail this is what the public want, well who's been out there and sourced this imformation because the folk on my round are up in arms that they wont get there post while later when they need to be off doing what they have to do. Also where does health & safety stand on this as opposed to 3 / 3.5 hr deliveries now we can do 5 / 6 hr deliveries i don't get it as there still wont be any toilets or shop on my round.

what firms and the public want is there early delivery back..

Sadly RM do not look at them as customers or owners (just sheep to be fleeced and that they are doing well!) As for the H&S stuff its off your shoulder so stop moaning and get on with it after all its "Your aspirations for a well paid and rewarding job" is it not? Some might say we as Post People dont live in the real world but i would say we do and its our bosses, Government RM and CWU that dont? Still we have our vote dont we.

[brookstar]

well " LJR " it was hardley a moan just a mere fact, yes we do have a vote and after 23 years of service to royal mail and subs to a crap union, there is no longer any loyalty and i will def be voting NO and i will not be working over my time if this is how they want to repay me with 2% pay rise, endless amounts of d2d and longer working saturday, i could go on but you already know all this don't you, now thats moaning.

[LJR]

Well Brookstar i do moan about the facts as given to us, and of course will be voting NO as well.