The big problem for the cwu

[bwfcmaddog]

i dont know about anyone else but this vote is taking a funny twist if you ask me, because now i find myself voting no to the agreement not just because its Cr-p but because i want to sort of punish ward and heyes for negotiating it i kind of want to blame them does anyone else feel like this towards them????

[DirtyHarry]

Yep, me.
I only wish to God that I had the power to ensure that both Ward & Hayes, not forgetting the D2D obsessed Bob Gibson too, were on deliveries from Monday onwards. Maybe then, they'd regret constantly shafting postal workers.

[spoodoo]

opt out forms for every customer on door to door would any posty dare do that!?

[davespan]

I am quite prepared to give opt out details out to anyone who complains. As I understand, that is the correct procedure.
Bearing in mind that someone was suspended, and I believe taken off his walk, I wouldn't be so daft as to blitz the addresses I deliver to. However, there are ways and means. Friends and family, plus the internet is a big tool. If this stitch up of delivery staff is passed then the war has just begun.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

opt out forms for every customer on door to door would any posty dare do that!?

Yes - his name was Roger Annies http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5294708.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[headscrewedon]

I am quite prepared to give opt out details out to anyone who complains. As I understand, that is the correct procedure.
Bearing in mind that someone was suspended, and I believe taken off his walk, I wouldn't be so daft as to blitz the addresses I deliver to. However, there are ways and means. Friends and family, plus the internet is a big tool. If this stitch up of delivery staff is passed then the war has just begun.

So in davesworld, the ideal scenario would be that everyone across the land opts out of d2d mailings, RM lose the only product stream that is growing, and we stick to just delivering traditional mail, a market that everyone both inside & outside the business recognises is in decline and will continue to do so as more and more people pay bills online ?

Encouraging people to opt out of receiving d2d mailings would be committing employment suicide. Delivering mail is the job we are paid to do, and what feeds my family. Using your 'war' theme, encouraging a d2d opt-out would be akin to shooting your own troops with the bullets that you should be 'delivering' to the enemy

[opgpat]

Yeah true but if we aren't getting paid for them why do them? RM could soon be making 400million a year from d2d and we will get jack s**t. If we don't get anything for it I'd rather the company don't make the 400million so the board see none of it and can't give themselves multi-million pound bonuses. d2d or no d2d we will be paid the same and RM will still be in profit.

Last years RM Group profits - over 300million.
Last years d2d revenue - 50million.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Using your 'war' theme, it would be akin to shooting your own troops with the bullets that you should be 'delivering' to the enemy

Ah the American Method as adopted around Normandy in 1944, Anzio in 1943 Iraq (both wars and the peace in between ), Afghanistan, the Tripoli attacks, Terry Lloyds death, and 8000 known case in the Vietnam war. AKA Friendly Fire US style.

[k979aaa]

Using your 'war' theme, it would be akin to shooting your own troops with the bullets that you should be 'delivering' to the enemy

Ah the American Method as adopted around Normandy in 1944, Anzio in 1943 Iraq (both wars and the peace in between ), Afghanistan, the Tripoli attacks, Terry Lloyds death, and 8000 known case in the Vietnam war. AKA Friendly Fire US style.

It is not so much as friendly fire as the bunker mentality we face from CWU H/Q.

[headscrewedon]

Yeah true but if we aren't getting paid for them why do them? RM could soon be making 400million a year from d2d and we will get jack s**t.

I sometimes wonder if some people live in an alternate universe.

Whoever negotiated for us to be paid-per-item for D2Ds did brilliantly in getting that deal. Because in any other job, you would be paid a wage based EITHER on items done (piecework) OR by the amount of hours worked. Not both at the same time !

If you are arguing for a paid-by-item pay structure, you'd have to expect RM to pay you less on quiet Tuesday than you'd get on a busy Saturday, on account of the fewer items actually delivered

We ARE getting paid to do D2D even if this deal goes through - it's our job to deliver mail, that's what the basic pay is for. It's only in Royal Mail that we are fortunate enough to get a separate payment just because it's a different type of mail.
Like I said, hat's off to whoever got that deal ! You don't see workers in a car plant, when the company decides to add a new model to their range, getting a seperate payment on top of their basic pay, just for building a different car, even though you use exactly the same skills and tools, do you ?

Do I get a separate payment for each packet I handle ? NO. Why in all good logic should D2D items attract an additional payment ? It's great that we have had that money for so long, but it ain't hard to see how RM believe they are paying us twice for D2Ds. My basic pay is the same every day, irrespective of how many items I physically deliver.

If you are arguing for a paid-by-item pay structure, you'd have to expect RM to pay you less on quiet days !

This deal is not everyone's cup of tea, but if the D2D market declines, we will still get the £20.60 even though we don't deliver any D2Ds

[feduppostie]

lets face facts if RM could have got away with putting d2d into envelopes sticking a 'stamp' on them and getting us to deliver them for free they would have end of

this is what we were told was going to happen ( today by a manager) until the CWU rode in on a big white horse and secured us a £20.60 supplement for us all - hooray!!

except I imagine it was a bit different

I would guess it went something like this:

RM: hello major d2d customer we are thinking of changing the way we deal with your d2d product it will be cheaper!!!

Major d2d customer: oh tell me more!!

RM: well we are going to put your d2d in an envelope with 4/5 others and get our staff to deliver them for free thus saving you money

Major d2d customer: Erm so my d2d will go in an envelope with 5 others (maybe my competitors) and the householder can just throw it into the bin without even opening it?

RM: Well yes but I doubt they would and it's cheaper!

Major d2d customer: Erm no thanks I want my product on the mat where it can be seen and if you can't deliver that I'll go to someone that can! It may be cheaper but my revenue would drop like a stone

RM: oh ok then well have another think

if they could have they would have already done it!!!!!!!

[feduppostie]

This deal is not everyone's cup of tea, but if the D2D market declines, we will still get the £20.60 even though we don't deliver any D2Ds

yes until the next deal when they decide to get rid of it despite us being told it would stay forever ( just like the ESA really)

we do not trust them anymore, promises have been broken, and that is the bottom line

[DirtyHarry]

This deal is not everyone's cup of tea, but if the D2D market declines, we will still get the £20.60 even though we don't deliver any D2Ds

Well, let's hope D2D starts to decline, and fast.
Junk leaflets should be left to those best suited to do them, not the nation's postmen/women.

[k979aaa]

One big IF d2d declines my ass it will.

[proper postie]

We are paid to deliver mail,not Chinese restaurant menus.