Does this deal stop us cutting off?

[GHOSTman]

Just curious if anyone knows what an employment lawyer would make of thousands of people being told they have to work more than their contracted hours for free. Royalmail spout things such as flexibility, longs and shorts, banking of hours, absorbtion, ect. all nonsense.. Doesn't change the fact you are only paid for a certain number of hours in a day. At present if I can't complete I will tell the lino this...and will work my contracted hours. (after much hassle and stress) If the new agreement comes in will we still be able to cut off if we can't complete in time? I'm prepared to continue to stick up to these bullying , overpaid robots...I just hope I still have the legal right to hit them with cutting off.

[Dogs of War]

That's the million dollar question. It will be the small print in the agreement or it will be worded so no one can understand what it means until they get a yes vote.

[GHOSTman]

This is what worrys me. It's bad enough at the moment trying to convince fellow posties that they can if they have the courage and stubborness work their contracted hours. I know for a fact that at present it is possible to work your contracted hours....because I have done this...by cutting off! fact!...some posties swallow the management bull, hook, line and sinker. This situation can only get worse with a vaguely worded agreement. If it comes in I can see a time when certain postmen could be working up to 5 -10 hours + per week for free.

[coxie]

i dont see how by law they can prevent cutting off, no employer can force overtime upon you, they will try flexiblity things and long and shorts probably but if you still cant complete they cant force you to work over your weekly contracted hours

[youwot!!!!!]

Just curious if anyone knows what an employment lawyer would make of thousands of people being told they have to work more than their contracted hours for free. Royalmail spout things such as flexibility, longs and shorts, banking of hours, absorbtion, ect. all nonsense.. Doesn't change the fact you are only paid for a certain number of hours in a day. At present if I can't complete I will tell the lino this...and will work my contracted hours. (after much hassle and stress) If the new agreement comes in will we still be able to cut off if we can't complete in time? I'm prepared to continue to stick up to these bullying , overpaid robots...I just hope I still have the legal right to hit them with cutting off.

NO AGREEMENT SUPERCEDES THE LAW.THEY CANNOT FORCE YOU TO WORK MORE THAN YOUR CONTRACTED HOURS UNLESS YOU WANT TO.
FLEXIBILITY WILL NOT WORK EITHER BECAUSE IF YOU WORK OVER ONE DAY YOU CAN START LATER THE NEXT SO IN A WEEK OR TWO YOU WILL BE WORKING NIGHTS.

[fishtank]

It is not a question of whether you can cut off,of course you can't be forced to work outside of your contracted hours.
The really interesting question is what will happen if you cut off?
Will it be a performance issue or will it be a delivery span issue?

[GHOSTman]

yeah, i agree, would be interested to know this. At the moment when I cut off there is the usual awkwardness from managers, but once they've accepted you mean what you say, they just let you get on with working to time. I'm worried by the proposed new measurement tools...indoor work load, top 10%, flexible delivery lengths. It would give managers a lot more amunition to use against us. We need some good solid rules on this...perhaps in the form of an agreement. ....i'll have the rest of my tablets now please nurse.

[davespan]

According to my area rep, this deal is so great because you can either cut off or claim overtime.
Yeah, well look at the reality. I for one, have no intention of being out delivering longer than I have to- when the kids are coming home from school, no thanks. Also, won't we be back to the bullying, grilling and intimidation that we received for cutting off last year? And where were the union-nowhere to be seen.

[ashadd]

Since EA There is no way on earth i can complete my duty on a heavy day......so i agree with lino what i can do before i go out and leave the rest in the fitting.....At first it was hard as they did not believe me ,kept saying pegasus says it can be done , i kept saying let pegasus feckin do it then now they tend to believe me and to be fair i get it spot on everytime.

[DirtyHarry]

Listen, your free time away from the shytehole that is RM, is YOUR free time to spend in whichever way pleases you most.
If a manager wants you to work some of your free time, he can ASK you, he cannot TELL you you'll be working some of your free time.
We're not slaves yet.

[banner18]

You can only be forced to work overtime if your contract of employment says so. It doesn't in our case so no more scare mongering needed. Royal mail cannot force anyone to work past their contracted hours, agreement or no agreement.
All the flexibilty contained in the agreement is concerning your contracted hours, altering delivery spans etc....

[opgpat]

There is a big issue here everyone needs to understand. You can cut off after 3 1/2 hours of delivery work period. Even if you have 2hrs of your shift left you can cease delivery, return to office and request indoors work for the remainder of your shift. THAT MAX 3 1/2 delivery span is about to change. What effect does that have on me you might say? Well if you get uppety and all 'I'm gonna work my hours' to the managers and he doesn't like it he will do this.

1) Get your walk ready for you so when you get in it's all tied up.
2) Get the walk next to it ready for you and all tied up.
3) Give you the keys to bag drops for both walks.
4) Tell you, 'now i know both of these rounds can be delivered in 4 hours, you have 8 hours shift time left so get out the door and don't bring anything back or you will be done for wilful delay, got it?'

With uncapped delivery spans as agreed in this 'Agreement' you will have NO option, you will HAVE to deliver it. That's the danger and it will put a stop to all your 'work my hours' ideas.

[novaswift]

At our WTL I asked what would happen if we got a day specific D2D on a Saturday which would put me over my contracted hours, do we cut off or get overtime? He did'nt have a clue!
He's already talking about 4 day weeks or 9 day fortnights and looking to save hours when we're trimmed to the bone already
Most of our rural duties struggle to finish on time as it is. This agreement is as clear as mud and even Stevie Wonder can see we will get shafted with a yes vote

[Wessex]

My managers couldnt prep a frozen meal

[AnnexeB]

1) Get your walk ready for you so when you get in it's all tied up.
2) Get the walk next to it ready for you and all tied up.
3) Give you the keys to bag drops for both walks.
4) Tell you, 'now i know both of these rounds can be delivered in 4 hours, you have 8 hours shift time left so get out the door and don't bring anything back or you will be done for wilful delay, got it?'


Whilst i dont disagree, that if they could, they would do this, it wouldnt really be possible, would it ? If you start at 6am, the manager would have to wait for all the sequenced mail and ips mail to be sorted.....at least 8am before you could feasibly be ready. And you`re not allowed aout of your office till 9.30am anyway.