What happens If its a No Result

[lillywhite]

.....if we get a no vote which the union leaders dont agree with and dont back any action?

[pinstripe]

We have them removed and replaced.
They are the "Elected Officials" of this union and as such, are answerable to the membership.
Although, in the real world, they don't realise this.

[headscrewedon]

Although, in the real world, this takes time. And while that process is happening, Royal Mail say OK, you voted No to modernising the business by agreement... so we just impose the terms of the deal by executive action.

That is the reality of a No vote. It leaves us nowhere to go but down

[opgpat]

CWU answer to us, they can't and wont ignore a NO vote. When it happens ACAS will ensure negotiations continue. RM cannot suddenly go EA because there will be another step in the process to continue with - ie negotiate a more acceptable deal. ACAS can't expect the vote to only go YES. This is a democracy and a NO vote must have a legitimate outcome. That outcome is more negotiations.

[Darren Bent]

When the vote come through and say 70% voted No to the union and Royal Mail about new Pay Con Deal.

What will happens afterwards. Do you think Royal Mail and CWU will come back and re discussion for better Pay Deal or what.

[opgpat]

Yes ofcourse, that's what the whole process is about. The Agreement will be re-negotiated and again put before PEC and a members vote once it is more agreeable to members. It's taken a long long time for the first vote to occur but we are restructuring a hundreads year old buisness here.

[mucker]

Although, in the real world, this takes time. And while that process is happening, Royal Mail say OK, you voted No to modernising the business by agreement... so we just impose the terms of the deal by executive action.

That is the reality of a No vote. It leaves us nowhere to go but down

so we just bend over and vote yes,if it's a no vote, then the chuckle brothers will have to go back to royal fail and begin talks.sounds like many of you are already waving the white flag

[NWpostie]

from what I understand, if we vote NO, RM will just simply scrap the agreement and bring all the changes regardless of opposition, we would have to be prepared to go out on strike again, I believe it was a strategic error to suspend strikes during Christmas, its too late now.

we now have 2 options, vote YES get the money, retain some influence on changes, WORK TO YOUR TIME, make sure the workload does not push you over your time, the fact that D2D are now live mail, means you can claim dockets if you go over.
don't use your cars, have a procedure in place for potential conflict between drivers sharing vans, there will some issues.

Vote NO, go out on strike, lose the money, no guarantee they will give us a better offer, maybe they will improve on it, you will be forced to work in the new system, sparking potential wildcat unofficial strike action, it could go on for a while, with no guarantee of success with the election just round the corner.

I feel depressed thinking about it, especially my talk with my Rep, seems there is a lot more to it than just the money, its the business future and thereby our jobs, the changes planned will be huge and unprecedented, the old timers will not cope with it, they will leave on VR, some are planning to do that, leaving the younger ones to deal with it, a job is better than the dole,if I am honest for what we do we do actually get better money than the private sector, talk about a rock and hard place.


I am in turmoil, previously I would have said a straight NO, once I know the details, now I am like a see saw, I am not sure which way to go, its going to be the same up and down the Country, going to read more and digest when the voting papers comes in, in the end its the Democratic process that will decide this, if we hadn't voted for the way forward, we would not be in the position we are in now, for the record I voted against P&M 2007.

[Lounge Lizard]

from what I understand, if we vote NO, RM will just simply scrap the agreement and bring all the changes regardless of opposition, we would have to be prepared to go out on strike again, I believe it was a strategic error to suspend strikes during Christmas, its too late now.

we now have 2 options, vote YES get the money, retain some influence on changes, WORK TO YOUR TIME, make sure the workload does not push you over your time, the fact that D2D are now live mail, means you can claim dockets if you go over.
don't use your cars, have a procedure in place for potential conflict between drivers sharing vans, there will some issues.

Vote NO, go out on strike, lose the money, no guarantee they will give us a better offer, maybe they will improve on it, you will be forced to work in the new system, sparking potential wildcat unofficial strike action, it could go on for a while, with no guarantee of success with the election just round the corner.

I feel depressed thinking about it, especially my talk with my Rep, seems there is a lot more to it than just the money, its the business future and thereby our jobs, the changes planned will be huge and unprecedented, the old timers will not cope with it, they will leave on VR, some are planning to do that, leaving the younger ones to deal with it, a job is better than the dole,if I am honest for what we do we do actually get better money than the private sector, talk about a rock and hard place.


I am in turmoil, previously I would have said a straight NO, once I know the details, now I am like a see saw, I am not sure which way to go, its going to be the same up and down the Country, going to read more and digest when the voting papers comes in, in the end its the Democratic process that will decide this, if we hadn't voted for the way forward, we would not be in the position we are in now, for the record I voted against P&M 2007.

I think you've summed the situation up very well, and many will be thinking that although they know it's a bad deal a 'no' vote is sadly most unlikely to achieve anything better.

[Cut Off King]

from what I understand, if we vote NO, RM will just simply scrap the agreement and bring all the changes regardless of opposition, we would have to be prepared to go out on strike again, I believe it was a strategic error to suspend strikes during Christmas, its too late now.

we now have 2 options, vote YES get the money, retain some influence on changes, WORK TO YOUR TIME, make sure the workload does not push you over your time, the fact that D2D are now live mail, means you can claim dockets if you go over.
don't use your cars, have a procedure in place for potential conflict between drivers sharing vans, there will some issues.

Vote NO, go out on strike, lose the money, no guarantee they will give us a better offer, maybe they will improve on it, you will be forced to work in the new system, sparking potential wildcat unofficial strike action, it could go on for a while, with no guarantee of success with the election just round the corner.

I feel depressed thinking about it, especially my talk with my Rep, seems there is a lot more to it than just the money, its the business future and thereby our jobs, the changes planned will be huge and unprecedented, the old timers will not cope with it, they will leave on VR, some are planning to do that, leaving the younger ones to deal with it, a job is better than the dole,if I am honest for what we do we do actually get better money than the private sector, talk about a rock and hard place.


I am in turmoil, previously I would have said a straight NO, once I know the details, now I am like a see saw, I am not sure which way to go, its going to be the same up and down the Country, going to read more and digest when the voting papers comes in, in the end its the Democratic process that will decide this, if we hadn't voted for the way forward, we would not be in the position we are in now, for the record I voted against P&M 2007.

Just what the CWU leadership & RM wanted ( as they seem to have joined forces ) .
As it has been said elsewhere on here RM have got the changes they wanted, the CWU have stopped RM bypassing them ( for the moment ) .
And the cost for this agreement ?
YOUR terms & conditions and a paycut too

[fishtank]

I think you've summed the situation up very well, and many will be thinking that although they know it's a bad deal a 'no' vote is sadly most unlikely to achieve anything better.

The reason you see no alternative is simply because HQ will not admit that one exists.
It is the most despicable act in a long list of betrayals that your own union would rather terrify it's members into a yes vote than admit that the agreement is unacceptable.
Do you truly think that when the agreement was completed everybody involved simply crossed their fingers and hoped?
If there really has been no discussions in HQ as to a rejection of the agreement or if those collective genii or geniuses cannot come up with a constructive alternative way forward then it certainly begs the question.

What exactly do WE pay them for?

[Big Daz]

fishtank

serious question

If we went back on strike, do you fully belive we will end with something better? Convince me please? Ivea open mind ready to be shaped.

Over to you

[fishtank]

fishtank

serious question

If we went back on strike, do you fully belive we will end with something better? Convince me please? Ivea open mind ready to be shaped.

Over to you

Well Daz first of all you say if we went back on strike?.
Who is advocating that?
It would take a fresh national ballot to re-instate strikes and i don't believe even the combined efforts of dingo and The Truth! could take the membership back to the gates in support of this particular leadership regime.So no,we would not be back on strike.
If the agreement is rejected what it will come down to is how much RM management need a deal to implement the changes proposed.
In my humble opinion Daz and no doubt the usual suspects will be along to contradict only an idiot would move ahead without an agreement.
We are not talking about tearing up the agreement,simply firming it up in some places and balancing the ridiculous rewards section,an increase in the delivery workload coupled with a cut in pay for many on deliveries is simply embarrassing.
Do i fully believe we will end up with something better? Better NO Fairer hopefully but nothing is gauranteed in life.
But i can gaurantee one thing,accept this deal and the next will be poorer still......
And the next couple of years will be busy on RMC with stories of the abuses caused by variious interpretations of this "managers charter"

[POSTMAN]

And the next couple of years will be busy on RMC with stories of the abuses caused by varies interpretations of this "managers charter"

RMC has been very busy since P&M Saving for the extra bandwith for 2010 and beyond.......

[andy2007]

Why are so many people convinced that if we manage to vote out this deal, that we'll end up on Strike?
What's wrong with returning to the negotiating table, to try to get a deal which better represents what the rank and file want?