Understanding the agreement

[The truth!]

Very few people on this board have been involved in high level negotations and even fewer have been involved in those negotations with ACAS assisting.

When you are involved a lot of time is spent in different rooms drafting words with ACAS going between the unions room and Royal Mail`s attempting to get the words agreed. Very often this leads to compromises on both sides to get the words which both parties can live with. Sometimes this leads to parts of an agreement reading both ways.

However this is where in the future Roger Poole and ACAS come into their own as they will oversee this agreement and they know why things were agreed and why things were worded in that way.

In this agreement , lets be totally realistic Royal Mail`s negotiators never wanted to be in their having to agree things which they had clearly stated they would not in the leaked Newsnight document. In fact they stated in that document 4 key objectives which were :

Deliver change with or without union engagement.

Putting transformation on hold is not an option.

Serve notice on the current IR framework.

Look to down dial the role of the union.

Well clearly this never happened. What ever your views on this agreement clearly the leaked document to newsnight has been put in the bin.

Now in terms of what has been agreed and to dispel some of the scare stories I will list below.

1. 3.5% being up in the air in the final year. Well the facts are on this is that Royal Mail did not want a review clause in this year. In fact in their financial plan they have factored in this figure as the divisional reps and pec saw when the plan was revealed at the TUC. The union wanted that review in their for 3 reasons , one if inflation increases , two if the pension issues has been resolved and three if the bussiness becomes more profitable. As is the case one we want that open ended , Royal Mail then leave themselves a get out clause. However I very much doubt if they want to change that as a lot of their plan is based on the back of 2011 and 2012 and of course the mail centre closure plan also includes 2013 and 2014.

2. That we can trust Royal Mail to change and the agreement will be deployed in a one sided way. Well of course we have little trust in Royal Mail , however if we dont take a leap of faith we can never have another agreement. In any case Royal Mail without an agreement are even worse at deploying change in a one sided manner. I think there are tensions in Royal Mail over this agreement as not every senior manager is happy with the agreement.

3. The delivery span is unlimited and can mean someone walking the streets for up to 7 hours - No it doesnt , the workplan will drive the delivery span. The agreement states the majority of will start before 0700 in the morning , the second batch of walk sequencing will not be in your office until after 0800 and as late as 10 in the morning. You will still need to put the work in the frame , add your flats , redirections , dead, tie up , include the door to door as it will be part of your workload etc before you go out. The agreement states that the vast majority ( estimated to 92% ) will be finished before 02 30. The delivery time wil include the total time , travelling , replenishment, toilet break and delivery time. So say that you will finsh your prep at say 0930 and then you are entitled to your meal relief and then on delivery well the most you can deliver will be 4 hours as travelling and replishment etc would have to be taken into account. Of course if you recieve your second 40% later then your span will be less. In any case delivery methods will be introduced and more importantly walks for the first time ever have to take in the factor stress and fatigue and if you do not have walk sequecing or delivery methods yet then you have to deomostrate clear solutions to fatigue and weight if you want an office to move past the current delivery span.

4. Door to Door into workload will mean that I get load extra. Well the agreement states THE GROWTH AMBITIONS FOR DOOR TO DOOR WILL BE MANAGED RESPONSIBLY. I can tell you that this has caused a lot of problems in management circles becuasue they believe they are paying twice for the work to be done once in the amount of hours and costs within a unit and the second in the way of the supplement. Think for a moment that if this agreement is endorsed that door to door will now cost them more to deliver then now as the agreement states D2D TRAFFIC WILL BE PLACED INTO MEASURED WORKLOAD BOTH INDOOR AND OUTDOOR. THIS MOVE INTO WORKLOAD WILL REQUIRE DELIVERY DUTIES TO BE ADJUSTED AND ALLOWANCES TO BE MADE IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT TIME TO PREP THE ITEMS AND DELIVER THEM. Operational management are not happy as they believe this will reduce their savings. In fact Royal Mail have idiciated that for a period they may want to put a further ceiling on door to door to asses the problems associated with this being put into workload.

I will post more points later but in the mean time keep it clean !!

[celerycelery]

I was wondering how can they adjust deliveries to compensate for the d2d's being now part of the work load when we wont know how many lots of d2d's we are getting each week? It also depends on what kind of d2d's we have. Some have pens inside etc and some weeks we have small catalogues, surely these take longer to prep etc than a single leaflet from sky.

[pickaname]

You forgot the astonishing PAYCUT from loss of D2D payment and so called "protected" ESA payments.

Obviously theres no point in securing the CWU's position in the workplace if they encourage some people to lose 18 days pay for a huge paycut.

I and most of my office will be coming out of the union if this goes through.

You should change your username to "The Bullshit".

[AnotherLimey]

I understand the agreement and can see why it's been done, still can't get my head around a paycut though, time the 3.5% pays out in 2012 i may be back to what i'm already earning now

It will be a NO from me and the majority of my office as we are a delivery office that deliverys 3 DTD every week without fail.

[borders]

"However I very much doubt if they want to change that as a lot of their plan is based on the back of 2011 and 2012 and of course the mail centre closure plan also includes 2013 and 2014." ......... THE TRUTH, what is the mail centre closure plan ? i have seen very little detail on this plan ? much has been said about deliveries but the fact that they want to close 50% of the mail centres mean that any mail centre worker voting for this agreement would be like turkeys voting for Xmas. Which , how , why ,when are they going to decide on these cuts ?

[mclovin]

My manager told us he'd been told the 7 hour walk was an option, now you're telling us different, that 3.5 + conveyance and replenishment is the only option. Some duties are already way above this, that means putting hours back in, which they will NOT do.

It comes down to trust with RM, we've taken leaps of faith before and be shat on from a great height, this will be no different.

[potters]

what ever agreement comes in,its always the front line postman that suffers.

[bunkerland]

Very few people on this board have been involved in high level negotations and even fewer have been involved in those negotations with ACAS assisting.

If this means we're all too stupid to understand what's gone on here then that must be true,but what we do understand is some simple numbers! For many of us these numbers add up to a weekly loss of >£20 and a disgaceful shafting of our part-time colleagues!

Most of us were desperate to hear this agreement sorted so we can all get some stability back in our working lives.Yes,i can see the bigger picture and if it meant losing a little money for it i wouldn't have minded too much,but with mortgages to pay and kids to bring up the £20 plus a week loss is just too much to give away!

Can anyone yet tell us for definite how the d2d will arrive(same as now or....)?Do full timers prep the part-timers d2d? If absorbing takes place,do we deliver those d2d too ?
Also,if our duties are being adjusted to incorporate all this extra work and we lose an hour from our working week,are we employing more staff? If people thought harrassment and bullying was bad before,wait till managers start getting stressed when they can't get d2d delivered because people aren't willing to work over their times!!

Thanks Dave and Billy,for F**k All!!

[spilie]

your right about one thing THE TOP UNION JOBS HAVE BEEN SAVED and as for RM not happy with the d2d agreement as they are now paying more to get it done,away and have a word wi yersel that is the funniest thind i have heard in a while, why dont you mention the fact that i will lose about £750 a year for the next 2 years on d2d and my ESA you remember ESA that was the payment you patted yourself on the back for securing forever for me, you did promise that didnt you, and now your back with more promises, sorry but no thanks

[opgpat]

However this is where in the future Roger Poole and ACAS come into their own as they will oversee this agreement and they know why things were agreed and why things were worded in that way.

I have one thing to say about this. ROGER POOLE WON'T BE STANDING NEXT TO ME AT MY FRAME WHEN MY LINE MANMAGER TELLS ME I MUST DELIVER FOR 6 HOURS SOLID AND IF I DON'T MEET THE TOP 10% PERFORMANCE I WILL BE ON A PERFORMANCE STAGE WARNING, THEN SACKED.

This agreement will be a LEGALLY BINDING DOCUMENT. The WORDING will take the scrutiny NOT ROGER BLOODY POOLE'S notes and opinions of it. THIS DOCUMENT is what sacked employees will be judged against in employment tribunals. THIS DOCUMENT will decide our fate NOT ROGER BLOODY POOLE.

The wording is a farse. It allows any DOM to do what he likes over delivery span. Any DOM can ignore the 1 in 4 Sats off saying it's not operationally possible.

Answer this ONE question. DOES THIS AGREEMENT COMPEL EVERY DOM TO REDESIGN EVERY DELIVERY WALK USING NEW PEGASUS INPUTS? If so show us the wording.

[ashadd]

Very few people on this board have been involved in high level negotations and even fewer have been involved in those negotations with ACAS assisting.

When you are involved a lot of time is spent in different rooms drafting words with ACAS going between the unions room and Royal Mail`s attempting to get the words agreed. Very often this leads to compromises on both sides to get the words which both parties can live with. Sometimes this leads to parts of an agreement reading both ways.

However this is where in the future Roger Poole and ACAS come into their own as they will oversee this agreement and they know why things were agreed and why things were worded in that way.

In this agreement , lets be totally realistic Royal Mail`s negotiators never wanted to be in their having to agree things which they had clearly stated they would not in the leaked Newsnight document. In fact they stated in that document 4 key objectives which were :

Deliver change with or without union engagement.

Putting transformation on hold is not an option.

Serve notice on the current IR framework.

Look to down dial the role of the union.

Well clearly this never happened. What ever your views on this agreement clearly the leaked document to newsnight has been put in the bin.

Now in terms of what has been agreed and to dispel some of the scare stories I will list below.

1. 3.5% being up in the air in the final year. Well the facts are on this is that Royal Mail did not want a review clause in this year. In fact in their financial plan they have factored in this figure as the divisional reps and pec saw when the plan was revealed at the TUC. The union wanted that review in their for 3 reasons , one if inflation increases , two if the pension issues has been resolved and three if the bussiness becomes more profitable. As is the case one we want that open ended , Royal Mail then leave themselves a get out clause. However I very much doubt if they want to change that as a lot of their plan is based on the back of 2011 and 2012 and of course the mail centre closure plan also includes 2013 and 2014.

2. That we can trust Royal Mail to change and the agreement will be deployed in a one sided way. Well of course we have little trust in Royal Mail , however if we dont take a leap of faith we can never have another agreement. In any case Royal Mail without an agreement are even worse at deploying change in a one sided manner. I think there are tensions in Royal Mail over this agreement as not every senior manager is happy with the agreement.

3. The delivery span is unlimited and can mean someone walking the streets for up to 7 hours - No it doesnt , the workplan will drive the delivery span. The agreement states the majority of will start before 0700 in the morning , the second batch of walk sequencing will not be in your office until after 0800 and as late as 10 in the morning. You will still need to put the work in the frame , add your flats , redirections , dead, tie up , include the door to door as it will be part of your workload etc before you go out. The agreement states that the vast majority ( estimated to 92% ) will be finished before 02 30. The delivery time wil include the total time , travelling , replenishment, toilet break and delivery time. So say that you will finsh your prep at say 0930 and then you are entitled to your meal relief and then on delivery well the most you can deliver will be 4 hours as travelling and replishment etc would have to be taken into account. Of course if you recieve your second 40% later then your span will be less. In any case delivery methods will be introduced and more importantly walks for the first time ever have to take in the factor stress and fatigue and if you do not have walk sequecing or delivery methods yet then you have to deomostrate clear solutions to fatigue and weight if you want an office to move past the current delivery span.

4. Door to Door into workload will mean that I get load extra. Well the agreement states THE GROWTH AMBITIONS FOR DOOR TO DOOR WILL BE MANAGED RESPONSIBLY. I can tell you that this has caused a lot of problems in management circles becuasue they believe they are paying twice for the work to be done once in the amount of hours and costs within a unit and the second in the way of the supplement. Think for a moment that if this agreement is endorsed that door to door will now cost them more to deliver then now as the agreement states D2D TRAFFIC WILL BE PLACED INTO MEASURED WORKLOAD BOTH INDOOR AND OUTDOOR. THIS MOVE INTO WORKLOAD WILL REQUIRE DELIVERY DUTIES TO BE ADJUSTED AND ALLOWANCES TO BE MADE IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT TIME TO PREP THE ITEMS AND DELIVER THEM. Operational management are not happy as they believe this will reduce their savings. In fact Royal Mail have idiciated that for a period they may want to put a further ceiling on door to door to asses the problems associated with this being put into workload.

I will post more points later but in the mean time keep it clean !!

So who negotiated using our own money ( colleague shares) as a BRIBE ?????

[The truth!]

Ok so lets examine the pay cut situration. Door to Door is not guarnanteed and can be 3 one week 2 another etc. It is only paid when you are at work so you dont recieve when on leave sick leave or during the christmas period. It has not been increased since 1995 and Royal Mail`s share of the market has dropped and postal workers got 4 million pounds less in payments last year. WSMs can automate door to door but I dont think really that is what they are intended for , however automation is something Royal Mail are intrested in when they increase the market and it pays for it self. All the major EU countries operate automation on unaddressed iterms.

On the other hand we have now a £20.60 payment paid forever in additon to basic pay and paid to new recuirts and will increase in line with basic pay increases.

With regards to the early shift allowances well the fact is that these payments were paid for starting at either 5 or 5:30 the fact is under walk sequencing and the new workplan there will not be many people on this attendaces. Remember 3 million pounds of the early shift payment was lost last year as when an indivudual leaves Royal Mail that money is simply saved by Royal Mail. No new recuirts get it and it was no longer being increased by basic pay rises. Ask any driver who currently recieves the reserved rights driving payment £6 which has not increased since 2000 whether he would want to find a way of increasing that money.

Now the facts on pay are these :

In deliveries the basic is £347.61 and due to compound factor of the £20.60 payment being included in pay rise 2 and 3 your exit rate will be £393.73 in 2012.

In mail centres the exit rate will be £372.11

In RDCs the exit rate will be £383.65

London Pay ranges will be above these figures. Professional drivers will increase from £433.43 to £473.26 in 2012.

Now if you compare those rates to what pay was before 2003 then you have to conclude that basic pay has increase in a big way. Basic pay before the Pay and Major change agreement in 2003 stood at £243.16 , within 9 years it would have increased by £150.16 Nationally in deliveries , £194 in inner London , £198.32 in outer London and for professional drivers an increase of £230.10.

Now with regards to the colleague share lets get one thing straight. Royal Mail financial postion determines whether you recieve a colleague share payment or not. Those payment are not gauranteed. In fact thay believe that the orginal value of £5800 has been halved due to their financial payment. The money which the union has got in this deal does two things it gets the payment paid early and it gets it paid to thousands of people who have joined after the colleague share money was allocated.

The two other payments linked to years 2 and 3 will grow if Royal Mail`s transformation strategy works. Plus the £1000 lump sum is now going to be for everyone employed by Royal Mail. Now the lump sum has a percentange value as well appoxmately 5%. Now in terms of the shorter working that is valued at 2.5% , Remember the shorter working week means for full timers your pay remains the same for doing a hour less work. For part timers because a full timers hourly rate goes up and they track this then they will recieve an automatic pay rise.

I full understand that some indivuduals will lose and that is a situration no one likes. But rejecting this deal does not mean that door to door will carry on the same as now.

Opgat the review of the agreement will determind that. In regards to one in four saturdays being ingnore turn to page 31 number 5 it clearly talks about a prefence exercise before a revison on Saturdays. If you turn to page 15 titled the workplan where it states that national reviews will ensure that attendance patterns are delivered at local level.

Again its great quoting 10% per cent etc but read what that states it on page 17 titled productivity : it states that it is essential that measurement systems are fair , objective , equitable , fully understood and bench marked on a like for like proecess. It also states that both parties need to fully understand why there are a range of perfromance levels across Royal Mail.

In addtion on page 22 titled work measurement /standards and revison tools. It is quite clear in these paragraphs that the union will review the standard and where neceesary test in a live enviorment and only agreed standard which we believe are fair and achieveable. You will not that Geo route is in that list.

In terms of legally binding agreements we dont have them in this country.

[ronpetetrevchris]

I hate to say it but between the things guy's like 'the truth' are saying and the pec meetings im changing mind. Dont get me wrong, im not saying its good but maybe it is given the situation. Thanks the truth for your continuing efforts to keep us informed.

[fishtank]

The Truth wrote
"The delivery time wil include the total time , travelling , replenishment, toilet break and delivery time"


The words in the agreement are
"The Delivery Span is defined as the time between the first and last letter inclusive of all related tasks such as replenishment, welfare etc."


It is amazing how easy it is to spin roughly the same words to imply something completely different.
Travelling to your first delivery point and then back to your D.O will not be part of the delivery span will it?
So when RM say "The vast majority of letter deliveries are PLANNED to be completed by 1430 hours"
Does that mean duty finish time or last letter?

[borders]

the mail centre closure plan ???????