sickness will i get screwed

[ernie8021]

hi all i was just wondering if anyone can help me. i have had a knee problem for about 3 years now and just been told what the problem is. i am going to need surgey to fit it but the problem is i was at work and my knee went on me so my mananger took me up to the hosiptal and i was told i had to take a week off but the problem is i am on a stage 2 and was wondering were i stand about arguing the stage 3 they are going to try and give me as my knee went on me at work can i stop them giving me a stage

[machineman]

hi all i was just wondering if anyone can help me. i have had a knee problem for about 3 years now and just been told what the problem is. i am going to need surgey to fit it but the problem is i was at work and my knee went on me so my mananger took me up to the hosiptal and i was told i had to take a week off but the problem is i am on a stage 2 and was wondering were i stand about arguing the stage 3 they are going to try and give me as my knee went on me at work can i stop them giving me a stage

No stages are issued by Sheffield not your managers however you need to speak to your rep or area rep to attend your RTU and argue the case for you not all RTU ( in fact not a lot ) finish in dismissal speak to an area rep mate

[TeeferTiger]

Stage warnings are automatically triggered and sent from HR.

If you're having an operation to enable you to return to fitness to do your job, I don't see how it would be fair or reasonable of a manager to issue a stage 3 and start dismissal procedures. I don't think they'd get away with it tbh as you can appeal anyway.

Either way, speak to your rep and get them to come in with you. Find a bloody good rep!!

[coxie]

hi all i was just wondering if anyone can help me. i have had a knee problem for about 3 years now and just been told what the problem is. i am going to need surgey to fit it but the problem is i was at work and my knee went on me so my mananger took me up to the hosiptal and i was told i had to take a week off but the problem is i am on a stage 2 and was wondering were i stand about arguing the stage 3 they are going to try and give me as my knee went on me at work can i stop them giving me a stage

No stages are issued by Sheffield not your managers however you need to speak to your rep or area rep to attend your RTU and argue the case for you not all RTU ( in fact not a lot ) finish in dismissal speak to an area rep mate

no they r not, they are triggered at sheffield but the decision on whether they are issued goes to your manager, even if they issued a stage 3 and you did get dismissed you would likely win an appeal as its an accident at work. 3 blokes at my office got sacked by our stupid dom for accidents at work and all 3 won their appeals

[Lemuel]

As above - if you hurt your knee at work, and it was logged as an accident, your absence due to your knee should be discounted.

[uphillstruggle]

If the previous absences that got you to a stage two were related to your knee, then it should (and probably wasn't) have been picked up as an underlying medical condition at your previous stage interviews.

If there is such a pattern in the causes of your sick absence then your manager should (again...) have considered this while deciding if each warning was appropriate, should have offered ATOS support and should have got to the bottom of the underlying proplem "preventing you maintaining a good pattern of attendance " rather than just issuing warnings.

Hopefully I've used the word "should" enough times to prevent everyone screaming about how this never happens!!

[Thunderthighs]

OK, SIMILAR HERE, but a "bit" different".

Had dog attack, recorded as AOD, accepted as such by DWP/DSS. RM admitted "liability", case on going. Leg/Hip injuries. No time off.
Had another one as above, case against dog owner ongoing. Groing/Thigh injuries. 3 months off.
Last one, slip on Black Ice, Ericad as AOD. No time off.
Had fall at home, stiches lots of blood. Off for a month.

This last one has initiated Stage 1 meeting.
But, I'm still getting Physio and seeing Consultant Orthopeadic Surgeon next month, due to continuing problems form AOD. Still working/delivering etc.

I strongly feel the fall at home related to injuries from AOD'S so, how can a DOM decide on my Medical condition???
They are NOT Medically qualified?

[uphillstruggle]

They aren't medically qualified, but in terms of the attendance procedure they don't need to be.

It's as simple as confirming that you were absent on the dates in question, assuming that all absence is genuine it shouldn't matter what you were off with, and if the starting position is that all absences are genuine then they don't need to be medically qualified as they're not trying to assess whether or not you were/are ill or unfit for work.

[Thunderthighs]

Uphillstruggle - story of my Life!: I realise the Medical decision isn't their's but, this is what seems like to me:
1. Whilst undertaking your normal duty, you get injured, or become a Victim of any injury, and get an AOD.

2. You take Sick Time to recover/recuperate due to an AOD etc. You get back to work, and another AOD comes along, AT NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN...

3. The injury is ongoing/long-term, but you return to work as soon as possible, though not fully recovered/receiving treatment, and do your best.

4. Then, you are requested to attend a Stage meeting, to explain why you were off. ( They already know!) This to me has a feeling of being a Victim once more!

Surely, they have "discretionary" powers to see that you're not Swinging the Lead, as medical evidence proves otherwise.
And, as the initial injury has been accepted as a lack of RM's H+S adherence, then the followon consequences can de directly related to this etc.
Cause and Effect: Cause, AOD's....Effect, and sustain an injury that is long-term, ongoing, BUT not due to any actions you have taken.

There has to be a difference in their Stage Warning/decision making between Sickness, Illness, AOD and Malingering...
And take Responibility for failures in their H+S POLICY that has ultimately led to this point.

[TeeferTiger]

I completely agree.

After my AOD (bad fall, landed like a sack of spuds on someone's doorstep on my left hand side), I didn't take any time off apart from the day sat in A&E. The day after, I took admin work home (but they still recorded that as a sick day too!!). When I was back on "rehab", they had me doing admin and gradually building up. They didn't have a rehab plan or anything for me and so when they kept pushing me to do more than I was able, eventually I had to say no. This resulted in a manager having a go at me and me going off work with stress for a month.

If I hadn't had the AOD, I wouldn't have had the problems with the manager and wouldn't have been off sick. Because of these problems with the manager, any further times when I didn't feel well, I didn't go in. I went from nothing to a stage 2 in less than 6 months.

The AOD resulted in me struggling to cope with the workload the managers kept trying to get me to take and eventually took it's toll. So I should in theory be able to claim that the stage 2 should be wiped off as they wouldn't have happened had a proper rehab plan been in place after my AOD.

[Thunderthighs]

Right-on Brother!

There has GOT to be someway to alter the way the Stages are interpreted.
Obviously, if your pissed and drive over a cliff, then tough!

But, if the injury is the result of "Normal" working practices, not your fault, and in my case, RM have admitted already "Liability"
then...How does this compare with the driving example? It DOESN'T!

Perhaps a "Petition" to amend the way it is currently operated can be set up?
Fairness seems to be missing, and therefore this needs to be addressed asap.

If ACTION isn't taken, then this will the Standard guidelines for all DOM's to view ANY absence: Your not here, for whatever reason, Stage...End of.

I would welcome any ideas, suggestions, recommendations.

[uphillstruggle]

Hopefully this will be picked up in the much-promised review of the conduct and attendance procedures?