What has happened to THE TRUTH

[gb93]

I could be wrong here (open to be shot down) but there has not been 1 post on here since the Agreement was shown unofficially or officially from THE TRUTH extolling the virtues of said deal.

Curious to know reasons behind this, any thoughts out there, maybe even from "the horses" mouth himself/herself.


Or does the lack of a ringing endorsment speak volumes (just a personal thought). Any more out there.And please keep it civil.

[Just_My_Opinion]

I could be wrong here (open to be shot down) but there has not been 1 post on here since the Agreement was shown unofficially or officially from THE TRUTH extolling the virtues of said deal.

Curious to know reasons behind this, any thoughts out there, maybe even from "the horses" mouth himself/herself.


Or does the lack of a ringing endorsment speak volumes (just a personal thought). Any more out there.And please keep it civil.

He's away feeding the pigs before they fly.

[DirtyHarry]

He's away feeding the pigs before they fly.

Well, I hope he's treating Crozier, Higson, Tolhurst, to a slap-up meal out of his own pocket, and not putting it down to expenses/our subs.

[The truth!]

He's away feeding the pigs before they fly.

Well, I hope he's treating Crozier, Higson, Tolhurst, to a slap-up meal out of his own pocket, and not putting it down to expenses/our subs.

Cheap shots dont win arguments.

I have had a look at some of the posts on here and talk about hysteria. Look the agreement should be seen along side the fact that this business along with many other industries is not in a great financial positon. It has competition and falling streams of mail. We may argue over the levels of the decline but it has reduced. In addition Royal Mail`s revenue is falling and rises in prices simply mean more companies down trade.

This industry would be insolvent if it was not an public service which is needed. However the Government has walked away thus far from its responsibility on pensions.

So lets get this straight despite this the CWU have secured the following.

1. 6.9 % over 3 years with a new permanent addition to basic pay worth 20.60 for full timers. ( most companies this year are still recieving zero per cent rises. )

2. A reduction in the working week of an hour which is worth an additional 2.5 % and means that part timers will have a further increase in pay as their hourly rate goes up.

3. Unlike the German Post Office and The Dutch Post office this union has secured an agreement that despite automation Royal Mail will predominantly remain a full time industry. The Dutch is 85 /15 part time and the Germans are 80 /20.

4. The CWU will be at the forefront of any change. There is more union involvement at local and area level than any previous agreement.

5. The CWU have improved MTSF for further mail centre closures which will happen with or without an agreement.

6. The CWU have mangaged to protect full times jobs by including Door to door into workload. The reason being is that work will now be counted in your overall traffic and will influence your call rate and your indoor rates for the office.

7. The £20.60 is not going to make everyone happy it never was and the union had to balance the fact that it could reduce the 2% to increase the supplement but then it would not have flowed through to allowances and would not have been pensionable.

8. The Union has secured in deliveries the ability of staff to have one in four Saturdays off for all who want it. I remember when I was a local rep and used to have arguments with members who wanted to stay on 6 days weeks and were opposed to the 5 day week.

9. We do not have legally binding agreements in this country but we will have both Roger Poole and ACAS oversee all the changes and they were in the room and know what was agreed and just as important why it was agreed.

10. Of course everyone wants more things in there including more money. But there was no more to be had. The colleague share money cant be changed on years 2 and 3 as there are legal implications so could not be used to fund anymore rises in the supplement. The colleague share money which the union was able to use was £1000 as it had not been announced and that money will be paid to everyone regardless of if you joined the industry after colleague share was announced.

11. Most comprehensive delivery agreement ever, including an agreed revision process, standards both indoor and outdoor, new attendance patterns and which puts the union in the room with management to ensure all members are represented in the workplace.

12. An agreement in processing which puts in place consultation process which has to be fully undertaken if management wishes to close further mail centres. In addition it provides improved MTSF terms for excess fares and any relocation as a result of closures to mail centres.

Look Lovejoy and Dingo get a lot of flack off some posters but they did more than most to get the union into the room when Royal Mail were just intent on imposing change.

Mister cucumber makes a point about about existing agreements and executive action. Well he comes from cash handling part of the industry where executive action is not used often. However in Royal Mail it is 400 plus revisions introduced last year by executive action. Network 09 changes by executive action in all network sites and the force closures of Reading , Oxford , Stoke , Liverpool , Crewe , Covertry , Milton Keynes and Paddington mail centres .

Look I understand and do recognise that individuals who stand to lose money from the supplement will be angry but believe me if door to door is not in workload then you can forget about 75 % full timers as the work will not be there to sustained the amount of full time jobs. Walk sequencing changes the arrival pattern in your delivery office.

I will be having discussions with my members and listening and answering questions. This is the most important decision of your working lives, before you make it you should be able to question and debate the agreement. In addtion you must come up with an alternative.

[Just_My_Opinion]

The Truth! would you agree that with this agreement that the CWU has indeed split it's paying members? Full timers, part timers, indoor staff and delivery staff are either benefiting or losing depending what unit you work in. Surely the union should be getting a fair deal for all it's paying members?

(lovejoy didn't have time to answer it)

[gb93]

Nice to have you back Truth

Thanks for the comeback did not know my powers included bringing back the dead

Have to say pleased you replied and proved reports of your demise were premature, thats the niceties out of the way.

Disapointed your just towing the party line and singing from the hymsheet given by HQ. thought you might have given us a more brutal,honest and balanced view, or maybe you did. NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

[The truth!]

The Truth! would you agree that with this agreement that the CWU has indeed split it's paying members? Full timers, part timers, indoor staff and delivery staff are either benefiting or losing depending what unit you work in. Surely the union should be getting a fair deal for all it's paying members?

(lovejoy didn't have time to answer it)

No I dont lets examine your claim, full time duties have been under threat for some time , thats why the second delivery was removed . Over the last few years management via the stoke agreement have introduced more part time duties as they believe that mech has improved. So the terms in this job ensures that this industry remains mainly full time. The current percentage is 21% and it will move to 25% by 2013. Now given the fact that walk sequencing will be deployed then that is a good achievement.

Secondly look at the part timers , they will recieve additional pay rise over and above the 6.9 from the introduction of the shorter working week which means their hourly rate goes up. In addition not every part timer performs a delivery , nor do they work every day, in some areas there are just Saturday part timers or when improved attendances are introduced you might just have some part timers who come in on a Friday and Saturday. If you paid them the full supplement then some would get money for working on just one day. Moreover the fact is that the supplement is made up of two issues door 2 door and the early shift 1 or 2 and most part timers are not in reciept of this. Now if the union decided to go down the route of a flat supplement equal to everyone then the payment would reduce to £18 however the part timers would still see an increase in pay from the shorter working week.

Remember this is a guaranteed payment week in week out , whereas door to door is not , and door to door has not seen an increase since 1995.

[ass asin]

im sorry the truth but there is no way of dressing up this agreement that will sell this to me. there are no specifics in the agreement. i want to be able to say to my colleagues. this is the agreed span, this is the agreed revision process etc etc. but there is nothing in this agreement to enable me to do that. but i can tell my colleagues they will lose money to subsidise this agreement, they will do more work for this agreement, pts will become the new second class part of the postal system with this agreement, and using the argument there are 27000 who do not at the moment recieve dtd payments doesnt add up as thsi figure will be inclusive of those who do not wish to do dtd and those whose job s do not involve the dtd product. and rm can keep there hour as that reduction is as much use as pishing in the wind. its just lip service. d2d is in workload.
if they want us to deliver more d2d product then let them pay for it. simples

This is the most important decision of your working lives, before you make it you should be able to question and debate the agreement. In addtion you must come up with an alternative.

and i pay my union dues for the people at the top of the union to come up with alternatives

[bedfordrl]

He's away feeding the pigs before they fly.

Well, I hope he's treating Crozier, Higson, Tolhurst, to a slap-up meal out of his own pocket, and not putting it down to expenses/our subs.

Cheap shots dont win arguments.

I have had a look at some of the posts on here and talk about hysteria. Look the agreement should be seen along side the fact that this business along with many other industries is not in a great financial positon. It has competition and falling streams of mail. We may argue over the levels of the decline but it has reduced. In addition Royal Mail`s revenue is falling and rises in prices simply mean more companies down trade.

This industry would be insolvent if it was not an public service which is needed. However the Government has walked away thus far from its responsibility on pensions.

So lets get this straight despite this the CWU have secured the following.

1. 6.9 % over 3 years with a new permanent addition to basic pay worth 20.60 for full timers. ( most companies this year are still recieving zero per cent rises. )

That is actually four years,we have had no pay rise this year,and a zero percentage would have been a tad more advantageous,between me and the missus we will lose around £1000

2. A reduction in the working week of an hour which is worth an additional 2.5 % and means that part timers will have a further increase in pay as their hourly rate goes up.

isn't that 30 mins and then 30 mins on meeting targets?.

3. Unlike the German Post Office and The Dutch Post office this union has secured an agreement that despite automation Royal Mail will predominantly remain a full time industry. The Dutch is 85 /15 part time and the Germans are 80 /20.

Ermm is that against the proposed 75/25 ?,not much in it really.

4. The CWU will be at the forefront of any change. There is more union involvement at local and area level than any previous agreement.

Yeah at a local level ,so inmy unpaid position as a local rep I am going to get caught in the cross fire of managers and members and in whose time?, i am supposed to get 3 hrs a week to do my union work ,I do not get time to scratch my arse let alone go to meetings or concentrate on important office matters, don't make me laugh.


.

[dvbuk55]

Actually the truth has been reading lovejoys posts and pasting them on here and lets just wait for dingo to trot out the same propaganda.

Anyone who has read the agreements would see that to all intents and purposes what is said is what is in the agreement - but that is not the entire truth, if you'll forgive the pun, take it apart and you'll see that there is very little substance to what is being said.

Full time job security? How can that be when there is expected to be a 4% decrease in full time positions by 2013 and who is going to monitor it - the assurance is pure speculation - the only people able to know is Royal Mail and they will be as honest as they day is long - just like they have always been.

No compulsory redundancies - only an avoidance of that, not a guarantee - and if there is the CWU will put it to a vote? How? - the wording is already in the agreement, so is the CWU saying yes that is part of the agreement but we didn't mean it? Of course not, if chosen you'll go.

Fully involved in all new modernisation and revisions with new revision tools - sight unseen - god they must think we came in on the last banana boat.

[fishtank]

The Truth wrote
The current percentage is 21% and it will move to 25% by 2013.

Let me get this straight.
Does this mean the full-time/part-time ratio is at the moment .......79/21 so we have agreed to destroy full-time jobs..
All the part-time guys who thought they would get full-time jobs from this agreement will be gutted.

[piranha]

I'd imagine they are relying on natural wastage - if I was nearing retirement age after an easy career with RM I'd get out asap, that should balance the mix

[number one]

The Truth! would you agree that with this agreement that the CWU has indeed split it's paying members? Full timers, part timers, indoor staff and delivery staff are either benefiting or losing depending what unit you work in. Surely the union should be getting a fair deal for all it's paying members?

(lovejoy didn't have time to answer it)

.

Secondly look at the part timers , they will recieve additional pay rise over and above the 6.9 from the introduction of the shorter working week which means their hourly rate goes up. In addition not every part timer performs a delivery , nor do they work every day, in some areas there are just Saturdayintroduced you might just have some part timers who come in on a Friday and Saturday. If you paid them the full supplement then some would get money for working on just one day. Moreover the fact is that the supplement is made up of two issues door 2 door and the early shift 1 or 2 and most part timers are not in reciept of this. Now if the union decided to go down the route of a flat supplement equal to everyone then the payment would reduce to £18 however the part timers would still see an increase in pay from the shorter working week.

Remember this is a guaranteed payment week in week out , whereas door to door is not , and door to door has not seen an increase since 1995.

your right no pay rise on D2D since '95 so does that mean we should take a pay cut on D2D? I get three lots of them every week without fail!!

[fishtank]

I'd imagine they are relying on natural wastage - if I was nearing retirement age after an easy career with RM I'd get out asap, that should balance the mix

I'm afraid the wastage works the other way.
This business churns a far higher percentage of part-timers than full-timers.
It is incredible to think that after having "protecting full-time jobs" shoved down your throat for so long it is now the unions intention to manage both the loss of thousands of jobs AND the increase of the part-time ratio.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The truth,

This agreement is important, not just because of the detail, but because of the implications and precedents it sets.

This must be the first time in UK history that a workforce has gone on strike only for its union to negotiate a deal that worsens its terms and conditions.

I presume that the union undertakes to represent its members equally. Why are non-delivery members being allowed to vote on changes that will affect delivery staff?