A question especially for Lovejoy or The Truth!

[Just_My_Opinion]

I've been a member of the CWU for a number of years now. I pay them £156.52 a year to fight for better working conditions for me.

I lost 18 days pay last year for the end result to be a pay cut and working harder.

Justify the above to me and I will happily vote yes to the agreement.

What have I or anyone on delivery gained from this agreement?

[Dogs of War]

My understanding we have gained nothing.

[Just_My_Opinion]

My understanding we have gained nothing.

I agree. However I am now giving lovejoy the chance to make myself and other members think differently.

[AnotherLimey]

Your just "Gobbing off" his words, not mine.

[el_cartero]

delivery staff nothing - pay cut + more work

indoor mail centre - pay rise + less work

[Just_My_Opinion]

Your just "Gobbing off" his words, not mine.

LoL! I have now give him the perfect opportunity in a public forum to put me in my place and stop me 'gobbing off' by answering the question at the start of this thread.

Simples.....

Well that's if you can can answer the question.

[Dogs of War]

The union leaders on this web site have been brain washed by billy and dave. After all they have to protect there 100,000 a year jobs.

[Dogs of War]

Can't wait to see his answer.

[Just_My_Opinion]

Can't wait to see his answer.

Join the queue. I will add something to this thread everyday so that lovejoy sees it and addresses it.

[lovejoy]

I really don't know why I bother but here goes :) ............

REVISION PROCESSES

The old 12 step process has been replaced by a 6 step one. The CWU are involved at every single step of the process and the revision will be based on what the employees want from the revision (in the form of a preference exercise) i.e full time jobs / earnings, 4 day weeks etc etc.

If you saw the process that RM originally used (I have a copy if you want it) then you would realise how much RM have been moved - this was because of the strike action.

The RM process put the unit rep on the backfoot and allowed them to come to the office right at the end of the whole process. In the new one nothing can move without the CWU.

Reps will be given full training on the new agreement and divsional reps will be used as mentors.

ATTENDANCE PATTERNS

Far from the RM view of standard 6-2 or 7-3 etc attendance patterns a menu of options is being finalised. These include RM accepting that offices can have the following patterns (and more) 4 day weeks, 9 day fortnights, monday - friday with part-timer on sat, one week off in 6.

Does anyone honestly think RM was prepared to offer these options pre strike?

WORKRATES

Perhaps at the heart of the dispute - Now all revision tools and standards will be agreed. Workshops will then take place to train all reps and managers. New national standard sheets will be produced so that every member is able to understand what is expected of them. I admit it is not ideal that these standards are unfinished but the briefing was told that they will be going out to branches very soon - For those of you who think that RM will just ignore this section - they can't because they are still embargoed by the ACAS nothing is agreed until everything is agreed position.

METHODS

CDVs, HCTs etc will achieve conference policy of weight off the shoulder. Guidelines for this will be out to reps this week. At the start of the Dispute RM said they didnt need a CDC agreement - they have one now!

CARS ON DELIVERY

Surely any decent postie cannot fail to admit that this is a massive achievement. This alone will see RM having to pump hours back into units as the penny finally drops with some people.

For those who say 'what if people ignore the ban?'.......... The bond will be withdrawn in every office and thus anyone driving will be breaking the law. In addition to this each duty will be assigned equipment - not using it and taking your car will be a conduct code issue.

SHORTER WORKING WEEK

Many members will say 'whats the point in an hour' - well this will save jobs in deliveries it's as simple as that - when couple with d2d into workload it will have a massive effect.

TRUST

A massive issue for every single one of us. I don't trust RM anymore than anyone else. The point is though that if we base our votes on not trusting RM then we will never ever make an agreement. At some point in the future we have to take a chance and with the support of ACAS this will be our best opportunity.

ACAS

Many of us are worried about RM honouring the deal. ACAS have made it clear that they will oversee the whole deployment of this plan and make sure that both sides honour the deal.

SATURDAYS

Royal Mails original position was that every delivery office would finish at 3pm on a Saturday with no debate.

There has been a massive shift in this. As a MINIMUM 1 saturday off in 4 has been agreed with the option to increase this locally by taking advantage of the attendance patterns on offer.

On top of this RMs starting point has moved to them saying that 92% of the UK will not have to work later than 2pm on a Sat and if we are honest the majority of the 8% left (very rural areas) already work until 3 (and sometimes later) on a Saturday anyway.

D2D

Saved this one for you :)

This is where the issue is and lets be honest about it. Nobody is looking past this and seeing the benefits above and I can understand that as people are losing money. When I go on about people attending meetings it is mainly to do with d2d because it is such a difficult issue to debate over hours on a computer back and forth.

So firstly RM have agreed to put it into workload (a CWU conference policy). For those members who say 'we'll just have to absorb it' remember that this new workload will form part of the new revision process and RM have estimated the cost in invested hours will top £40m.

The most controversial issue is around the 20.60 and for a number of reasons. In simple terms the CWU have captured every single penny that is currently being paid out on d2d to members and averaged it out (pro-rata). The other choice was to pay different rates. This was an issue for a number of reasons. firstly when people left the industry that money would be lost forever. Another thing was what if you had 700 delivery points now and a year later picked a rural? Most importantly of all though was because the supplement is not for d2d. It is for being a delivery postal worker. This will take a lot of getting used to but the future is d2d being treated as normal mail. More contracts will simply be seen as more mail and treated in exactly the same manner with regards to cut-offs / claiming etc.

The early shift allowance is part of the 20.60 and the reason for that is the union chose now to capture it as the sum shrinks every year with people leaving (£3m lost last year alone) and all new entrants do not receive the allowance. The longer the union waited to cosolidate this payment the longer more the cash decreased.

D2D pro-rate,..... no it is not. d2d is into workload and you get paid in time now. The supplement is pro-rata. For all those part-timers who are understandably upset though it is worth noting that if you have for example a 30 hr contract you will get roughly £15 supplement. You will also get about £7 from the increased hourly rate due to FT staff getting a SWW so thats a £22 payment in reality. I think the tipping point there is about 27hrs.

Please do not think I don't understand that d2d is a huge issue because I do. All I will ask you to think about is if you had the same choice would you pick protecting jobs or protecting what are in essence overtime payments. Last year RM turned away £40m of D2D contracts because of the cap. Have a look at all economic situation around you. How the hell can any union justify turning away work? - it is shameful!

The Union has put protecting jobs first - That is nothing to hide from.

WHERE WE WERE

If anyone feels we have gained nothing well just go on back and have a look at the document leaked to newsnight. RM set out to smash the union to pieces. This deal will never ever satisfy us all. I am not happy with some elements of it but I have read every single page, I have looked at where we were, I have looked at the outside environment (which we must do) and I have come to the decision that I went on strike for a fairer future - I think with the help of ACAS building trust and monitoring RM this is what we will achieve.

................

I tell you what you asked for my view, here it is. I expect the usual suspects to start picking at sections they don't agree with, twisting words etc.

I too took 21 days strike action last year. I deserve to have my say like anyone else. I WILL VOTE YES

[Stormproof]

RM set out to smash the union to pieces.

As far as I'm concerned if this agreement goes through the union has been smashed to pieces and I will be pulling my subs

[REDLETTER]

I really don't know why I bother but here goes :) ............

I thank you for this, why is it left to you to have to explain the basics in layman's terms.

I need the CWU to go back and negotiate a guarantee that this "£40m of D2D contracts" extra income makes some way back to those who deliver them. So a % increase (extra) for the new business generated needs to be fought for. If the new D2D business doesn't appear then we get no extra monies! The offer so far seems to be a snapshot in time with nothing taken in to account of the increase Delivery workers are expected to do.

[lovejoy]

I thank you for this, why is it left to you to have to explain the basics in layman's terms.

I need the CWU to go back and negotiate a guarantee that this "£40m of D2D contracts" extra income makes some way back to those who deliver them. So a % increase (extra) for the new business generated needs to be fought for. If the new D2D business doesn't appear then we get no extra monies! The offer so far seems to be a snapshot in time with nothing taken in to account of the increase Delivery workers are expected to do.

Sorry I left that bit out and more but that was off the top of my head. I will add to it when I have agreement in front of me and some time.

In relation to your point RM have agreed to quarterly d2d meetings where growth will be examined. The ultimate aim of this payment is to get it into basic pay and make it pensionable.

I should also point out that one of the other benefits of a supplement is that it rises with pay - unlike d2d which has been 1.67 since 1995.

[fishtank]

Lovejoy wrote
"On top of this RMs starting point has moved to them saying that 92% of the UK will not have to work later than 2pm on a Sat and if we are honest the majority of the 8% left (very rural areas) already work until 3 (and sometimes later) on a Saturday anyway."

Can you explain the feasability of this if saturday is to be treated as a normal working day?
I am probably one of the usual suspects but i will attempt to aviod twisting anything.

[coxie]

I think that is a very credible post lovejoy, infact you almost made it sound like a good deal for a minute. I think the trouble with the union we have is the never ask us what we want and fight for the wrong things, most of the higher union reps dont do a walk and are out of touch with how hard the job really is these days and think its a good deal for us to pile more work on us with later finish times on a saturday. What happens to all those people with season tickets? will royal mail refund them?