What is wrong with our union

[MinisterofCucumber]

It serves the Labour Party and not the members.

It does not communicate information effectively.

It does not train and educate its reps.

It has a middle-management tier of 'bought' men on paid release who have more in common with the management than the workers.

It supports the system of local agreement that undermines national agreements and contributes to divide and rule.

It favours face to face negotiation with management to resolve disputes where written exchange would be more effective.

It relies on one firm of lawyers.

Access to a strong central core via a forum like this on the internet would be a way of helping all members get good advice. We all want to be represented by someone clever, not someone even more ignorant than our managers. Most disputes can be resolved using written communication. The results could be anonymous and available to all. Transparency could be achieved without breaching confidentiality.

There is no need for branches.

There is no need to support any political parties.

There is a need to make sure that those who have betrayed us end their working lives doing the job they have helped make so difficult.

[moggy1974]

i totally agree

[mcboing boing]

It serves the Labour Party and not the members.

It does not communicate information effectively.

It does not train and educate its reps.

It has a middle-management tier of 'bought' men on paid release who have more in common with the management than the workers.

It supports the system of local agreement that undermines national agreements and contributes to divide and rule.

It favours face to face negotiation with management to resolve disputes where written exchange would be more effective.

It relies on one firm of lawyers.

Access to a strong central core via a forum like this on the internet would be a way of helping all members get good advice. We all want to be represented by someone clever, not someone even more ignorant than our managers. Most disputes can be resolved using written communication. The results could be anonymous and available to all. Transparency could be achieved without breaching confidentiality.

There is no need for branches.

There is no need to support any political parties.

There is a need to make sure that those who have betrayed us end their working lives doing the job they have helped make so difficult.

[stokes11eg]

Yip--I'd like to see a certain party reduced to the ranks again, on 6 hour walks, and basic wage!! If he had any honour at all. he would resign.

[mcboing boing]

Yip--I'd like to see a certain party reduced to the ranks again, on 6 hour walks, and basic wage!! If he had any honour at all. he would resign.

I know a few like that.

[The truth!]

This forum which postman set up has many benefits, but one of it's disadvantages is that it has posts like mister cucumber
which states things which are either not true or are misleading and there protrays the union in the wrong light.

To correct his post . The union has not paid the labour party a penny apart from it's mandatory fees as the union carried e6 and won't do unless the pension defcit is resolved. However as is right annual conference decides as every Cwu branch which reprsents every member of the Cwu decides.

The union does not just use one firm of solictors. Yes Simpson millar is used for personal injury claims on the postal side but not on the bt side where Edwards duthie is used. We also use Patterson brewer for employment law. Plus we use tom hendy for advice on employment law cases and injunctions.

Now in terms of face to face negotations or exchanging letters. Well I am a negotator and you have to do it face to face, you know when their under pressure and you know when their not. Yes we deal with issues in email and letters but these talks would not be finished now if it was done by email or letter only.

Now with regards to forums like this , well the Cwu website did originally have members forum but it got submerged into a north versus south fight and got dropped. These forums are ok but I get a lot of stick from coming on here cause like dingo and lovejoy I know what's happening and know that I will be told I am giving in or a sell out when us 3 have probably seen more action in fighting for the benefit of the members then anyone on here. The fact we recognise what is coming is not the same as accepting that change.

Now in terms of getting rid of branchs well I am lost for words. Who would do conduct code and attendance interviews. Who would negotate for a unit, create policy etc.

Now in terms of no more local agreements. Well on one hand we have people jumping up and down on delivery spans and saturdays yet when the union states that's down to local offices to agree , the union gets accused of allowing local talks to undermine the national agreement. For the record 150 the broadway will never agree the revisions of 1500 delivery units, 64 mail centres and 11 rdcs. After the way some have slagged the pec off why would you want them too!

[nelson]

The Truth. Is it not the case that the union is very poor in communicating with the members, so this in turn will give rise to some of the posts on here.
I worked for years in RM and as a rep but the help from the branch was bad. The union protrays its self to the members in the wrong light.
This has been the argument all the time I was working and nothing has changed.
Thanks for all the updates and keep up the good work,it is a thankless task sometimes.

[fishtank]

The Truth wrote
"This forum which postman set up has many benefits, but one of it's disadvantages is that it has posts like mister cucumber
which states things which are either not true or are misleading and there protrays the union in the wrong light."

We are not brain dead idiots.
We are all aware that Ministerofcucumber's post was simply his opinion.
Posts like his encourage debate and discussion from diverse points of view.
That is what forums like this are designed for and are certainly not a disadvantage.
What worries me more is someone who presents himself as a senior trade union official trying to silence or undermine his post.
Perhaps it would be more productive to discover WHY members feel so disaffected with a union they continue to support financially.
In my opinion your repetition of the same points and constant downdialing of members expectations are far more insidious.
It is time HQ started looking at the big picture,if this deal is a good deal it will stand on it's own feet.
But if the deal is so poor that it takes a major sales drive to get an acceptance from the membership then we will simply find ourselves in the same position we were after P&M 2007 only this time members will leave this union in droves.
And then we will all be screwed.

[The truth!]

Every one is entitled to an opinion. However when they make statements which are not true that is no longer an opinion. I was therefore simply correcting this and then expressing my opinion on his comments.

[andy2007]

As others have already said: The biggest problem with the CWU Nationally, is the poor communication. If we don't get better two way communication between the Negotiators and the Members, then we will inevitably have problems. The situations we find ourselves in, change over time. Even such a short time as 4 months.

Then of course, there's the changes in what is/will be offered by the Managers. Something which may appear to be a good compromise in the negotiations, may be unacceptable to the Members. And something else, which may not seem good at the time, may possibly be seen as a good idea, when proposed to us. What we need, is the opportunity to provide feedback.

A decade or 2 ago, that wouldn't have been practical. But if you were to get rid of the secrecy clauses, and re-open the CWU Forum temporarily, during negotiations. Or release the details of what each side brings to the table on here, so that we can give our opinions. There's an excellent chance of avoiding the problems we had in 2007, and again now.

If they knew that they would get their chance to provide feedback directly to the negotiators. I'm sure that the vast majority of CWU Members would get involved.

Having said all that: I for one, greatly appreciate the CWU's efforts on our behalf. Yes, mistakes are sometimes made. But you're only Human, just like us. And without all your hard work. Things would be much worse than they are!

[MinisterofCucumber]

If someone called themselves 'The Handsome', do you think they would be more handsome than someone who didn't use this title?

If someone called themselves 'The Clever', do you think they they would be cleverer than someone who didn't?

If someone calls themselves 'The Truth', does that mean they are more truthful than someone who doesn't?

My point about lawyers is that unless you keep changing them, there is a good chance they can get nobbled by the opposition. I imagine this sort of thing goes on when the stakes are high.

"To correct his post . The union has not paid the labour party a penny apart from it's mandatory fees as the union carried e6 and won't do unless the pension defcit is resolved. However as is right annual conference decides as every Cwu branch which reprsents every member of the Cwu decides."

The Truth?

I know of one union official on paid release who is also a Labour councillor and states he is sponsored by the CWU.

How does the CWU sponsor him?

Is he the only example?

The twat told me I had to take a paycut and there was nothing anyone could do about it. I raised a grievance and got pay protection. I had to write to MPs to get about 30 of my workmates their money.

When the idiot starts his election campaign, a few of us are going up to his ward and are going to follow him around singing a song about how useless he is.

[Night Tonic]

So what more do you expect of the CWU during negotiations when the basis of the talks was not talking to the press or anyone else? Duh...

[dvbuk55]

Well I can understand where the truth is coming from. When you belong to a certain group you feel that it should be defended under any circumstances and in some cases that defence is justified but you should never try to defend the indefensible. Minister goes over the top in some instances BUT he does have several valid points. The closer you are to the "bigger picture" it would seem to me the less you see.

In one fundamental point the minister is without doubt correct and that is the overhaul of an organisation which has run it's course and owes apparently more to Royal Mail and the Government than it does its members.

[BELIAL]

Every one is entitled to an opinion. However when they make statements which are not true that is no longer an opinion. I was therefore simply correcting this and then expressing my opinion on his comments.

Belial I never said I was on the team of negotiators

Well I am a negotator and you have to do it face to face,

Sailing close to the wind on that one "truth", people might get the wrong impression don't you think?

[wranglered]

yeah let's have the truth, truth....

dingo as well....and mr lovejoy....

negotiators....I would say so....I already have said so....

you lads don't like opposition do you?

but there again this site is unrepresentative isn't it lovejoy?

especially when Mr Cucumber and others make valid and vibrant comments that make this site worth bothering with.....

keep it up King Cucumber!!!!