Seniority (again)

[yokel]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

[louielouie]

as far as i know under the way forward national agreement your unit needs a high percent of vac duties before a duty can be advertised for signing. but i would say good IR you should get thing done fifferently within your unit??

[Broxi51]

The vacancy should be put up on the board for all to apply. The most senior should get it. If the manager doesn't do this then they are using executive action and your union rep should put in a stage 1 disagreement. If the manager refuses to go back to the status quo (put the most senior in the post) then your union rep should put in a unilateral disagreement and it will go up to the regional manager and his counterpart.

[Pinky 1]

The vacancy should be put up on the board for all to apply. The most senior should get it. If the manager doesn't do this then they are using executive action and your union rep should put in a stage 1 disagreement. If the manager refuses to go back to the status quo (put the most senior in the post) then your union rep should put in a unilateral disagreement and it will go up to the regional manager and his counterpart.

Broxi51 you're basically correct. The only variation i would put on this is if the vacant duty needs specialist skills. Otherwise, seniority takes preference ......me thinks !

[smokerjim]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

Senoirity is NOT illegal, nor discriminatory - the confusion arises from the age discrimiation legislation introduced last year, IIRC, but seniority works on the principle of LOYALTY OF SERVICE not AGE IN SERVICE.....would it be fair for a 40 year old OPG with 22 years service to miss out on a fixed duty, because a 42 year old new starter gets it before the ink on his contract is dry?

IMO seniority is the only fair way to assign duties - it is based upon loyaty to the service, not how fluent you are in Arselikkhan to the managers, after all, no one begrudges those with over 20 years serice their extra holiday entitlements, do they and that is no different is it?

[mondeoman1]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

Senoirity is NOT illegal, nor discriminatory - the confusion arises from the age discrimiation legislation introduced last year, IIRC, but seniority works on the principle of LOYALTY OF SERVICE not AGE IN SERVICE.....would it be fair for a 40 year old OPG with 22 years service to miss out on a fixed duty, because a 42 year old new starter gets it before the ink on his contract is dry?

IMO seniority is the only fair way to assign duties - it is based upon loyaty to the service, not how fluent you are in Arselikkhan to the managers, after all, no one begrudges those with over 20 years serice their extra holiday entitlements, do they and that is no different is it?

You cannot only use seniority, other factors should also come into it such as timekeeping, sickness and ability to do the job. I worked with someone who had 20 years service that never came in on time, would not come in at all sometimes and stunk of alcohol. He was the doms favorite so nothing ever happened.

I have been there 6 years and been off sick twice and only late once.

Who is the better employee?????

[smokerjim]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

Senoirity is NOT illegal, nor discriminatory - the confusion arises from the age discrimiation legislation introduced last year, IIRC, but seniority works on the principle of LOYALTY OF SERVICE not AGE IN SERVICE.....would it be fair for a 40 year old OPG with 22 years service to miss out on a fixed duty, because a 42 year old new starter gets it before the ink on his contract is dry?

IMO seniority is the only fair way to assign duties - it is based upon loyaty to the service, not how fluent you are in Arselikkhan to the managers, after all, no one begrudges those with over 20 years serice their extra holiday entitlements, do they and that is no different is it?

You cannot only use seniority, other factors should also come into it such as timekeeping, sickness and ability to do the job. I worked with someone who had 20 years service that never came in on time, would not come in at all sometimes and stunk of alcohol. He was the doms favorite so nothing ever happened.

I have been there 6 years and been off sick twice and only late once.

Who is the better employee?????

That's a fair point, and I'm not certain how an employee's record would come into it, but seniority should be the first standard to use, although I can't see it making any difference between you & the 20 year bloke you cited.....mind you, if someone like your example keeps getting off the hook, yet someone else is treated by the book ( ie coded for being consistantly late ) put a grievence in, and keep putting them in, sooner or later I imagine, the DOM will be dealt with ( probably sideways ) and his golden boy won't have his protection anymore.

[mondeoman1]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

Senoirity is NOT illegal, nor discriminatory - the confusion arises from the age discrimiation legislation introduced last year, IIRC, but seniority works on the principle of LOYALTY OF SERVICE not AGE IN SERVICE.....would it be fair for a 40 year old OPG with 22 years service to miss out on a fixed duty, because a 42 year old new starter gets it before the ink on his contract is dry?

IMO seniority is the only fair way to assign duties - it is based upon loyaty to the service, not how fluent you are in Arselikkhan to the managers, after all, no one begrudges those with over 20 years serice their extra holiday entitlements, do they and that is no different is it?

You cannot only use seniority, other factors should also come into it such as timekeeping, sickness and ability to do the job. I worked with someone who had 20 years service that never came in on time, would not come in at all sometimes and stunk of alcohol. He was the doms favorite so nothing ever happened.


I have been there 6 years and been off sick twice and only late once.

Who is the better employee?????

That's a fair point, and I'm not certain how an employee's record would come into it, but seniority should be the first standard to use, although I can't see it making any difference between you & the 20 year bloke you cited.....mind you, if someone like your example keeps getting off the hook, yet someone else is treated by the book ( ie coded for being consistantly late ) put a grievence in, and keep putting them in, sooner or later I imagine, the DOM will be dealt with ( probably sideways ) and his golden boy won't have his protection anymore.

Fortunately both no longer work for Royal Mail for reasons I can't discuss but at least you understood the point I was putting across.

[Blade Runner]

Seniority followed by capability.

You are a senior member of staff and you have a bad conduct/sick/late record then you should not get the job.

[dvbuk55]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

Senoirity is NOT illegal, nor discriminatory - the confusion arises from the age discrimiation legislation introduced last year, IIRC, but seniority works on the principle of LOYALTY OF SERVICE not AGE IN SERVICE.....would it be fair for a 40 year old OPG with 22 years service to miss out on a fixed duty, because a 42 year old new starter gets it before the ink on his contract is dry?

IMO seniority is the only fair way to assign duties - it is based upon loyaty to the service, not how fluent you are in Arselikkhan to the managers, after all, no one begrudges those with over 20 years serice their extra holiday entitlements, do they and that is no different is it?

You cannot only use seniority, other factors should also come into it such as timekeeping, sickness and ability to do the job. I worked with someone who had 20 years service that never came in on time, would not come in at all sometimes and stunk of alcohol. He was the doms favorite so nothing ever happened.

I have been there 6 years and been off sick twice and only late once.

Who is the better employee?????

Don't ask. don't tell.

[mondeoman1]

Seniority followed by capability.

You are a senior member of staff and you have a bad conduct/sick/late record then you should not get the job.

Spot on but in reality the favorite wins.

[dblad]

Vacancy in our office just been filled, a repick was offered then after that seniority

[lekker]

The way forward is clear about this. Jobs are filled on seniority, no mention of sickness or anything else.

The only time this may not apply is if the job requires specialist skills i.e. PHG work or something like that.

whether you think you are the better employee does not come into it. I worked in an office with 40 experts working with 39 other idiots

[Blade Runner]

The way forward is clear about this. Jobs are filled on seniority, no mention of sickness or anything else.

The only time this may not apply is if the job requires specialist skills i.e. PHG work or something like that.

whether you think you are the better employee does not come into it. I worked in an office with 40 experts working with 39 other idiots

In our office 2 hundred plus experts and 4 idiots, sorry Managers.

[smokerjim]

The way forward is clear about this. Jobs are filled on seniority, no mention of sickness or anything else.

The only time this may not apply is if the job requires specialist skills i.e. PHG work or something like that.

whether you think you are the better employee does not come into it. I worked in an office with 40 experts working with 39 other idiots

In our office 2 hundred plus experts and 4 idiots, sorry Managers.

Only 4 idiots? Well, once there is a rationalisation of managers that should make the job a bit more idiotproof......(can someone finish the gag )