Gross Misconduct - advice ladies n gents

[ziko]

Its encouraging to hear that my office isn't the only office suffering from blatant bullying and harrassment by management.
Was this modernisation of managerial bullying tactics part of your local Interim agreement as well ? Union where are you..?

[La Poste]

Gross misconduct is dismissal no question about it.
Appeal manager may back up the dismissing manager (it's company politics to dismiss people IMO), if your friend is a bit older with many years service the pension savings will be worth the sacking ( I have to check on this but I think if you are sacked for gross misconduct RM take all the pension money they have contributed through the years back off of you). Also Royal mail will save on any future VR settlement, VR costs the company more money the older you get.
The dismissing manager will get a bonus for saving costs.
Your friend will have great difficulty getting another job because of his dismissal.
Dole office may penalise him aswell, IE not pay him for a while.
The union can represent him but cannot stop this dismissal and the union are very reluctant to support someone at a tribunal, they site costs as the reason but I think that's bullsh1t, tribunals do not award costs to the other side.
Your friend may win an employment tribunal but the award he will get will not be that much and RM will still save money if he does ( IE from future pension contributions, holiday pay etc).
I am hearing stories like this more and more.
Best to try to get the newspapers involved and write to your MP but watch your own ass while you do all this.

[La Poste]

He`s probably got about 15 years in....

There you go.
If your friend really feels he is being picked on then get him to put a grievance in against the manager, this grievance will have to be investigated first before dismissal proceedings can continue.
In the meantime get your friend to check their home insurance to see if they are covered for legal expenses, if not then get this cover now, it may pay for a solicitor to represent them at an employment tribunal otherwise the cost for a solicitor may be very expensive and tribunals do not award costs to the other side so the solicitor will have to be paid for out of pocket.
If your friend feels really ballsy get them to consider putting in a bullying and harassment case against the manager but seek advice from the union and other people first on this issue, it could backfire on your friend IE your friend found could be found guilty putting in a complaint in bad faith.
This sort of behavour is not uncommon in Royal mail now so your friend is not alone.

[La Poste]

Our current line manager has no less than 30 harrasment cases against him, and hes not allowed to go back to his old office ever. Him and the hatchet dom make a great team.

Sounds like the sort of person Royal mail reward, it's all about cost cutting at the end of the day.
Get your friend to buy a voice recorder and take it with them to all the meetings, all of them, and make sure your friend keeps it a secret.
From my sketchy (very sketchy) knowledge I have on this subject it is legal to record meetings, you don't haveto tell the other person as long as the recording is not given to a third party, however a recording can be given to an employment tribunal.

[savo]

My advice is to pay someone to shoot the manager in the face.

[La Poste]

Here's a quick calculation, the figures could be wrong.
Pension- Royal mails contributions £40 per week, multiply by 52 and 15 = £31,200
(This is the money RM can claw back although I'm not sure if they can, we need a union rep to confirm this, your own contributions will be safe, RM pension is usually you pay one third, RM pay two thirds so they just take back their own money).

VR settlement for 15 years roughly £15,000

Total £46,200

Add to that the saving of turning a F/T duty to a P/T duty and you can see why this manager will be rewarded.

Cost to the company of dismissing your friend = £0

Employment tribunal may award between £5000-£10000 although RM often settle before the proceedings start to save themselves the cost of legal fees.

It's a no brainer.

[La Poste]

The crux of the matter is not whether it's right or wrong but whether RM can get away with it, pay a bit of compensation and save themselves a bundle.
There doesn't seem to be any comeback except a payment at an employment tribunal of say £10,000.
What is to stop RM doing this, who is going to stop them sacking people for nothing?
They cannot be taken to court and given a big fine for this sort of behavour and they don't seem to care about the bad publicity.
So what's to stop them? Common decency sure won't.
You're friend may well have all these charges thrown out, I hope they do.

[mitzi]

The persons ex other half is the sub rep, the main reps off this week surprise surprise, and she seems to think they (RM) dont have a leg to stand on becasue some other person broke their hand fighting out of work, and was off 3 months sick and nothing was said. Though that is true, my thoughts are that the other person is 1 of the special ones, and nothing was put in writing about fighting being the reason to the absence, so thats not an argumnet really is it.

Its the biggest load of crap ive ever heard - why have they not suspended him if their planning in sackage ? And if they arent planning on sackage, why the letter with gross misconduct as the charge ??

How can they possibly prove he was using a york incorrectly ? How do you do that btw ? use a truck incorrectly ?

May I also add that the lad in question has previous. He hurt his back taking a bag off a drop bag fitting about 6 years ago, RM admitted liability and he got about 3k. Had a bad back ever since. Though that shouldnt come into it, im sure it will

They must get the area rep involved if it is gross misconduct, it is a discipline level not appropriate to unit rep. Give your friend the area reps number asap.

[k979aaa]

Why would anyone break their hand Deliberately and on Purpose it is a load of cock and bull any court in the land will say much the same but royal mail are a law unto themselves or so they think get the union on this if not in the union a good employment solicitor will take on the case!.

[La Poste]

a good employment solicitor will take on the case!.

And what will they do with it?
How much will they charge?
What will this person get at the end of it?

[Judgee]

Why would anyone break their hand Deliberately and on Purpose it is a load of cock and bull any court in the land will say much the same but royal mail are a law unto themselves or so they think get the union on this if not in the union a good employment solicitor will take on the case!.

Oh I don't know I have considered throwing myself down the stairs a few times when things at work have got me down

[k979aaa]

a good employment solicitor will take on the case!.

And what will they do with it?
How much will they charge?
What will this person get at the end of it?

The person could be reinstated or have up to two years severance pay as to what they charge depends upon the case and if royalmail was at fault they would foot the bill as justice is paid for by the non wining party unless they get legal aid!.

[k979aaa]

Why would anyone break their hand Deliberately and on Purpose it is a load of cock and bull any court in the land will say much the same but royal mail are a law unto themselves or so they think get the union on this if not in the union a good employment solicitor will take on the case!.

Oh I don't know I have considered throwing myself down the stairs a few times when things at work have got me down

I would advocate dwarf throwing try using him :cfo FIRST!.

[Judgee]

Nooooooo way I couldn't throw Crozier down the stairs!!!!

Off a ten storey block of flats...... now that would be more than doable! :cfo

[La Poste]

The person could be reinstated or have up to two years severance pay as to what they charge depends upon the case and if royalmail was at fault they would foot the bill as justice is paid for by the non wining party unless they get legal aid!.

Where did you get this information from?
Could you provide some evidence of your opinion?
My opinion is you would pay an employment solicitor £185 per hour for a £10,000 award in compensation.
As for legal aid I am not sure.
No win no fee are not interested because employment tribunals do not award costs to the other side.