Refusal to ERICA record AOD.

[Thunderthighs]

Took a slip on the ice, informed PHG within 18hrs, which was earliest available, convienient opportunity.
Manager was informed then, and 1hr later personally by me.
In office meeting later, I requested to record AOD on Erica system.
Manager flatly refused, saying I'd left it "too late". I put request in writing, weeks of waiting up tomorrow.
( As a fromer HS person, i know they were totally wrong.)

Anyway, spoke to nice HSE Adviceline lady today, and she said the manager was basically talking rubbish.
Also said I can record it myself directly, and they would then inform employers.

Question: What can I do to ensure the Manager does their job properly, and stop trying to fob off people?
It seems like, if it doesn't suit them, they won't do anything. But they soon throw up procedures when it suits their arguement.
They are totally refusing to recognise peoples "rights" within employment law etc...

[noggin1969]

You

[pondhopper]

Took a slip on the ice, informed PHG within 18hrs, which was earliest available, convienient opportunity.
Manager was informed then, and 1hr later personally by me.
In office meeting later, I requested to record AOD on Erica system.
Manager flatly refused, saying I'd left it "too late". I put request in writing, weeks of waiting up tomorrow.
( As a fromer HS person, i know they were totally wrong.)

Anyway, spoke to nice HSE Adviceline lady today, and she said the manager was basically talking rubbish.
Also said I can record it myself directly, and they would then inform employers.

Question: What can I do to ensure the Manager does their job properly, and stop trying to fob off people?
It seems like, if it doesn't suit them, they won't do anything. But they soon throw up procedures when it suits their arguement.
They are totally refusing to recognise peoples "rights" within employment law etc...

Hope this helps, take a look at this. The text highlighted in bold makes it clear enough and says it all.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/riddor.htm#who" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who should report an incident?

The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR), place a legal duty on:

* employers;
* self-employed people;
* people in control of premises;

to report work-related deaths[1], major injuries[2] or over-three-day injuries[3], work related diseases[4], and dangerous occurrences (near miss accidents)[5]. The easiest way to do this is by calling the Incident Contact Centre (ICC) on 0845 300 99 23 (local rate). You will be sent a copy of the information recorded and you will be able to correct any errors or omissions.

NB. Copies of submitted RIDDOR forms are sent to the employers / dutyholders regardless of who has submitted the report.
Why should I report?

Reporting accidents and ill health at work is a legal requirement. The information enables the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and local authorities, to identify where and how risks arise, and to investigate serious accidents. We can then help you and provide advice on how to reduce injury, and ill health in your workplace.

For most businesses, a reportable accident, dangerous occurrence, or case of disease is a comparatively rare event. However, if it does happen, please let us know.
What is the Incident Contact Centre (ICC)?

The ICC is a ‘one-stop’ reporting service for work-related health and safety incidents in the UK. It was established on 1 April 2001 and is a primarily a call centre, open from Monday to Friday between 8:30am and 5:00pm. If you wish to speak to an ICC operator, just call 0845 300 99 23. All information will remain confidential.
How does the ICC work?

The responsible person, usually the employer or person in control of the premises, must report all incidents and keep appropriate records. The quickest and easiest way to do this is to call the Incident Contact Centre on 0845 300 99 23 with no need to fill in a report form. The ICC Consultant will ask a few questions and take down appropriate details, this is reporting. Your report will be passed on to the relevant enforcing authority. You will be sent a copy of the information recorded which you can file - this meets the RIDDOR requirement to keep records of all reportable incidents. It’s as easy as that. When you receive a copy of the information recorded, you will be able to correct any errors or omissions.

You can also report by completing an interactive form[6] which automatically sends you a copy for your records.

Reports are also accepted via email[7] or post[8] to the ICC.
How do I contact the ICC?

* By phone: 0845 300 99 23 (local rate)
* Online: HSE RIDDOR - Report online[9]
* By email: riddor@connaught.plc.uk
* By Post: Incident Contact Centre, Caerphilly Business Park, Caerphilly CF83 3GG.

What must I report?

As an employer, a person who is self-employed, or someone in control of work premises, you have legal duties under RIDDOR that require you to report and record some work-related accidents by the quickest means possible.

You must report:

* deaths;
* major injuries;
* over-3-day injuries – where an employee or self-employed person is away from work or unable to perform their normal work duties for more than 3 consecutive days;
* injuries to members of the public or people not at work where they are taken from the scene of an accident to hospital;
* some work-related diseases;
* dangerous occurrences – where something happens that does not result in an injury, but could have done;
* Gas Safe registered gas fitters must also report dangerous gas fittings they find, and gas conveyors/suppliers must report some flammable gas incidents.

RIDDOR applies to all work activities but not all incidents are reportable. If someone has had an accident in a work situation where you are in charge, and you are unsure whether to report it just call the Incident Contact Centre (ICC) on 0845 300 99 23. .

You can also find details of reportable incidents by looking at RIDDOR in more detail[10].

Information supplied to HSE in a RIDDOR report is not passed on to your insurance company. If you think your insurer needs to know about a work related accident, injury, or case of ill health please remember to contact them separately - insurers have told us that reporting injuries and illnesses at work to them quickly could save you time and money.
When do I need to make a report?

Although the Regulations specify varying timescales for reporting different types of incidents, it is advisable to ring and report the incident as soon as possible by calling the Incident Contact Centre on 0845 300 99 23.

In cases of death, major injury, or dangerous occurrences, you must notify the enforcing authority without delay, most easily by calling the Incident Contact Centre on 0845 300 99 23.

Cases of over-three day injuries must be notified within ten days of the incident occurring.

Cases of disease should be reported as soon as a doctor notifies you that your employee suffers from a reportable work-related disease.
What records do I need to keep?

You must keep a record of any reportable injury, disease or dangerous occurrence. This must include the date and method of reporting; the date, time and place of the event; personal details of those involved; and a brief description of the nature of the event or disease.

You can keep the record in any form you wish. You could, for example, choose to

keep your records by:

* keeping copies of report forms in a file;
* recording the details on a computer;
* using your Accident Book entry;
* maintaining a written log.

If you choose to report the incident by telephone or through this web site, the ICC will send you a copy of the record held within the database. You will be able to request amendments to the record if you feel the report is not fully accurate.

[Thunderthighs]

Pondhopper: Thanks, but I've given this - in an abbrieved version - within a letter Sat. No reply...
Think the Ostrich-head-in-the-sand sounds about right! ( Sent copies/covering note to Rep, Reg. Rep plus Simps/Millar.)

The arrogance is what worries me, or is it ignorance? Don't know if Managers have HS training, or just make it up as they go along. Seems like the latter...
Giving it few days, and if no activity forthcoming, I'll take it further.
Thanks for all the help/advice, people.

[brothermagrew]

Took a slip on the ice, informed PHG within 18hrs, which was earliest available, convienient opportunity.
Manager was informed then, and 1hr later personally by me.
In office meeting later, I requested to record AOD on Erica system.
Manager flatly refused, saying I'd left it "too late". I put request in writing, weeks of waiting up tomorrow.
( As a fromer HS person, i know they were totally wrong.)

Anyway, spoke to nice HSE Adviceline lady today, and she said the manager was basically talking rubbish.
Also said I can record it myself directly, and they would then inform employers.

Question: What can I do to ensure the Manager does their job properly, and stop trying to fob off people?
It seems like, if it doesn't suit them, they won't do anything. But they soon throw up procedures when it suits their arguement.
They are totally refusing to recognise peoples "rights" within employment law etc...

Respect to you bro, and I sincerely hope that you did indeed take the nice HSE's lady's advice and reported the incident directly yourself and eternal shame on your manager for failing to duly report an AOD via the Royal Mail online ERICA system. Perhaps it would be nice to hear directly from one or two of the managers who actually make contributory and sometimes worthwhile postings on RMC. Let's have their perspective on why all RM managers should report all accidents on duty via the ERICA system.

Regardless on whether any individual employee is disliked or is a proverbial thorn in their side or through pure pettiness, this does not give the person who is in charge of the premises, the right to not duly record a reported AOD.

Another way at looking at things:

Fiction: It's easier for employers not to report accidents

Fact: Under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995, employers have a legal duty to report certain accidents. This includes all major injuries e.g. fractures, amputations or dislocations or any other injury which leads to an incapacity to work for more than three days. Failure to do so is a criminal offence for which employers could be fined up to 20,000. Information gathered from accident reports is essential as it helps enforcing authorities to advise on preventative action.

[spoodoo]

reg the putting in a grievance ,theres a bit on the form ,,,i would prefer my manager NAME,,, does not handle this complaint ,who else would handle it? said someone from occupational health or someone will want to see me while im off too.Gonna be stressfulll!

[pondhopper]

Pondhopper: Thanks, but I've given this - in an abbrieved version - within a letter Sat. No reply...
Think the Ostrich-head-in-the-sand sounds about right! ( Sent copies/covering note to Rep, Reg. Rep plus Simps/Millar.)

The arrogance is what worries me, or is it ignorance? Don't know if Managers have HS training, or just make it up as they go along. Seems like the latter...
Giving it few days, and if no activity forthcoming, I'll take it further.
Thanks for all the help/advice, people.

No prob 'Thunderthighs'
I posted this to help other people as well. So they can see what the HSE say and also use the link to the website as well as using the phone number listed, if needed.
Keep copies of all incidents/accident reports etc, who ever you are, just in case "The Management" (and I'm not talking "The Two Rons" here either... ) happen to 'misplace/lose or can't locate etc, their copies.
So that way you could always be a nice helpful postie by offering them a copy of yours until they 'find' theirs.... ummmm would you?

[Thunderthighs]

Result at half time: Postie, 1, Managers 0.
In other words, they read my letter, and they said, there was a "misunderstanding" of the injury, accident, occurance etc, etc.
So, I fully expained the situation/outcome, timings, methods used to report it and the lack of RM action so...
They are going to see which recording method is the most appropriate, so I don't care which method is used, as long as it's recorded, OFFICIALLY!

Kick off for the second half is coming soon...hope to get a Home result!!!

[brothermagrew]

Pondhopper: Thanks, but I've given this - in an abbrieved version - within a letter Sat. No reply...
Think the Ostrich-head-in-the-sand sounds about right! ( Sent copies/covering note to Rep, Reg. Rep plus Simps/Millar.)

The arrogance is what worries me, or is it ignorance? Don't know if Managers have HS training, or just make it up as they go along. Seems like the latter...
Giving it few days, and if no activity forthcoming, I'll take it further.
Thanks for all the help/advice, people.

No prob 'Thunderthighs'
I posted this to help other people as well. So they can see what the HSE say and also use the link to the website as well as using the phone number listed, if needed.
Keep copies of all incidents/accident reports etc, who ever you are, just in case "The Management" (and I'm not talking "The Two Rons" here either... ) happen to 'misplace/lose or can't locate etc, their copies.
So that way you could always be a nice helpful postie by offering them a copy of yours until they 'find' theirs.... ummmm would you?

Brother pondhopper with respect, I fail to see how "The Management" can possibly misplace/lose or can't locate etc, their copies when the following measures where put in place.

ERICA Handbook:
An "ERICA Handbook" has been constructed which will be issued to all Managers and Offices. However, CWU wanted a number of significant amendments to the Handbooks and Managers Guidance. (From memory there turned out to be about 18 or so amendments that were finally agreed upon).

Local Records - The CWU raised concerns regarding the need to retain local records for Inspection, audit, compliance and enforcement purposes.

This specific issue was resolved as follows - A locally retained "ERICA Record Book" will be maintained on every site. This will consist of a sectioned Ring Binder in which Managers will file the various incidents by type in each section and the book will be subject to Audit and Inspection by Trade Union Safety Representatives, auditors or HSE/LA Inspectors.

Unless of course through GROSS NEGLIGENCE or SHEER INCOMPETENCE

[Thunderthighs]

"Full time nearly up, could go into overtime...and it's 2 - 0 to the postie!"

Been told today that another manager will be recording the AOD on Erica next week. Bringing him in from other office.
So, seems like my logical and totally reasonable approach has worked.
BUT...Why does it take so much kicking and screaming to get done what's RIGHT!

There's rules and regs that we all have to stand by and apply, but it appears RM Management don't.
Watch this space...

[brothermagrew]

"Full time nearly up, could go into overtime...and it's 2 - 0 to the postie!"

Been told today that another manager will be recording the AOD on Erica next week. Bringing him in from other office.
So, seems like my logical and totally reasonable approach has worked.
BUT...Why does it take so much kicking and screaming to get done what's RIGHT!

There's rules and regs that we all have to stand by and apply, but it appears RM Management don't.
Watch this space...

Nice on bro but with the addendum - Watch your back

And why does it have to take another outside manager to be brought in to record your AOD via the ERICA system

[coxie]

put in a grievance agaisnt the DOM

[k979aaa]

Took a slip on the ice, informed PHG within 18hrs, which was earliest available, convienient opportunity.
Manager was informed then, and 1hr later personally by me.
In office meeting later, I requested to record AOD on Erica system.
Manager flatly refused, saying I'd left it "too late". I put request in writing, weeks of waiting up tomorrow.
( As a fromer HS person, i know they were totally wrong.)

Anyway, spoke to nice HSE Adviceline lady today, and she said the manager was basically talking rubbish.
Also said I can record it myself directly, and they would then inform employers.

Question: What can I do to ensure the Manager does their job properly, and stop trying to fob off people?
It seems like, if it doesn't suit them, they won't do anything. But they soon throw up procedures when it suits their arguement.
They are totally refusing to recognise peoples "rights" within employment law etc...

Report your accident to the dss i believe you can do this and should do this if royalmail fail to record your accident report them to the HSE that way your case will be up held in the event of reluctant management!.

[Thunderthighs]

Well, I think I could be on a winner, but think reason for bringing someone else in is, current/present DOM doesn't know the procedure, lol!

But, here's a good 'un: You can report AOD to HSE/Riddor if you're off for 3 or more days, or...if you're regular duties are altered to allow for an injury.
So, DOM's reply: "As you're a relief, you don't have "regular" duties, so this rule shouldn't count." ???????????????????
This means that ALL the newer/older reliefs would come under this DOM's understanding/interpretation of the rules. On Plant DOM that is!

I'm amazed that many other DOM's aren't off sick with bad backs...due to all the goalposts they move!!!

Anyway, hoping to put the Erica report in asap.

[pondhopper]

Well, I think I could be on a winner, but think reason for bringing someone else in is, current/present DOM doesn't know the procedure, lol!

But, here's a good 'un: You can report AOD to HSE/Riddor if you're off for 3 or more days, or...if you're regular duties are altered to allow for an injury.
So, DOM's reply: "As you're a relief, you don't have "regular" duties, so this rule shouldn't count." ???????????????????
This means that ALL the newer/older reliefs would come under this DOM's understanding/interpretation of the rules. On Plant DOM that is!

I'm amazed that many other DOM's aren't off sick with bad backs...due to all the goalposts they move!!!

Anyway, hoping to put the Erica report in asap.

What does your DOM think he is doing? If he said this then he is implying that if you are not full time employed then you are not covered by this? So wrong! This just shows you that RM are ignoring what has been set down in law as an Act of Parliament and your DOM is an idiot.. he is flauting the law. This has been enacted by Parliament and as such he is in breech!

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_19953163_en_1.htm

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_1 ... .htm#mdiv3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notification and reporting of injuries and dangerous occurrences
3.—(1) Subject to regulation 10, where—

(a) any person dies as a result of an accident arising out of or in connection with work;

(b) any person at work suffers a major injury as a result of an accident arising out of or in connection with work;

(c) any person not at work suffers an injury as a result of an accident arising out of or in connection with work and that person is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatment in respect of that injury;

(d) any person not at work suffers a major injury as a result of an accident arising out of or in connection with work at a hospital; or

(e) there is a dangerous occurrence,

the responsible person shall—

(i)forthwith notify the relevant enforcing authority thereof by the quickest practicable means; and

(ii) within 10 days send a report thereof to the relevant enforcing authority on a form approved for the purposes of this sub-paragraph, unless within that period he makes a report thereof to the Executive by some other means so approved.

Also this is on the HSE website as well.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fit3street/royalmail.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royal Mail Project 2009-10
Local Action Plans

Project – This work is the culmination of the three-year project initiated in 2007/08 which saw the development of Local Action Plans across Royal Mail. The 2009 Project will see those last remaining areas that have not previously participated joining the scheme. Project work involving Royal Mail Group contributes to the Large Organisations Partnership scheme (LOP)
Aim

To achieve jointly established health and safety targets within an agreed timescale via Local Action Plans. Emphasis should be placed on continuing local collaborations between HSE and LAs to promote sustainable improvements, and involving Royal Mail’s Area Management Teams and Trade Unions more directly in the management of health and safety.
Justification

In 2007/8, there were 4,887 reportable accidents involving Royal Mail staff. The organisation’s injury rate per 1,000 staff was nearly three times greater than the all industry average. This resulted in thousands of working days being lost to the business, as well as untold personal suffering for those directly involved.

Audience/industry
Enforcement responsibility for Royal Mail is divided between HSE and the LAs. Broadly speaking, premises including Sorting and Delivery Offices fall to the LAs, with HSE responsible for delivery operations. Partnership working between HSE and LAs is therefore important for this industry to achieve sustained reductions in accident figures.
Messages

A more proactive approach to the management of health and safety within Royal Mail is required to ensure sustainable improvement. Royal Mail’s Area Management Teams need to take responsibility for delivering the targets agreed in the Local Action Plan.

Activities required
HSE and LA inspectors will meet with Royal Mail and TUs to develop and agree the Local Action Plans. The Plans should address specific matters of local concern and include a target on the Walk Risk Assessment process. These matters may be identified from previous inspections or through discussion with Royal Mail and the Trade Unions. The broader, corporate strategic goals will be addressed through the national LOPP Improvement Plan.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fit3street/msdrm.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Activities required
Enforcing authority inspections of Royal Mail have been undertaken nationwide for the last five years. During that time LA and HSE inspectors have repeatedly provided advice and guidance on the key hazards (including MSDs). As a result, there is now an expectation that Royal Mail should be demonstrating extensive compliance.

Your DOM is in breech of regulations and law and as such if no positive action is taken then further action should/must be taken before someone ends up seriously injured or, God forbid, gets killed! What would he do then? Claim they were no doubt out of uniform at the time, and no action need be taken I bet!