as karl marx said (almost)

[postie09]

Modern industry has converted the little workshop of the
Postmaster into the great factory of the industrial
capitalist. Masses of labourers, crowded into the factory, are
organised like soldiers. As privates of the industrial army they
are placed under the command of a perfect hierarchy of DOMS
and area managers. Not only are they slaves of the DOM class,
and of the Royal Mail State; they are daily and hourly enslaved by
the machine, by the line manager, and, above all, by Mr Crozier himself. The more openly this
despotism proclaims gain to be its end and aim, the more petty,
the more hateful and the more embittering it is.

[Tman]

Even the fool Marx couldn't write anything that cliche'd.............

[Thunderthighs]

I prefer Groucho, Chico, Harpo and Zeppo myself...

[La Poste]

I liked it. Great rant.

[postie09]

Even the fool Marx couldn't write anything that cliche'd.............

ah but he did. do you know why cliches are cliches? because over time they've been shown again and again too be true.

marx was no fool. read his works and you'll see. many things he predicted have come to pass. his vision of the future didnt happen in the 20th century, and not all of it will, but it should be noted the communist states werent truly marxist. a great if flawed mind who we all owe much too.

[Night Tonic]

No, cliches are used because people can't come up with words of their own.

[borders]

No, cliches are used because people can't come up with words of their own.

you dont like to use too many words , eh !!!!!

[borders]

Even the fool Marx couldn't write anything that cliche'd.............

ah but he did. do you know why cliches are cliches? because over time they've been shown again and again too be true.

marx was no fool. read his works and you'll see. many things he predicted have come to pass. his vision of the future didnt happen in the 20th century, and not all of it will, but it should be noted the communist states werent truly marxist. a great if flawed mind who we all owe much too.

well said my friend, Marx does go a long way to explaining what the Capitalist system is all about and its need to exploit the vast majority of working people [ amongst other things ]and for a very few people it has worked really well !!!!..........This has given rise to a rich elite unprecedented in history. Britain’s 50 richest people are collectively worth over £450 billion, up 26% from last year. The world’s richest 50 individuals are worth over £720 billion, up 22%.

[CourtneyCox]

No, cliches are used because people can't come up with words of their own.

you dont like to use too many words , eh !!!!!

I would not concern yourself with the hecklers. I ignore them as with most of this type they add nothing to a debate, merely just make throwaway comments from the side lines. You find many such members on many forums of this type, they never explain a comment and never give ground or accept another's position or viewpoint.

-

[Member 34]

No, cliches are used because people can't come up with words of their own.

you dont like to use too many words , eh !!!!!

I would not concern yourself with the hecklers. I ignore them as with most of this type they add nothing to a debate, merely just make throwaway comments from the side lines. You find many such members on many forums of this type, they never explain a comment and never give ground or accept another's position or viewpoint.

-

Thought you were great in Friends

[Tman]

ah but he did. do you know why cliches are cliches? because over time they've been shown again and again too be true.

Cliche.. "a hackneyed phrase or opinion" Oxford English Dictionary. Nothing whatsoever to do with "shown again and again to be true".

marx was no fool. read his works and you'll see. many things he predicted have come to pass. his vision of the future didnt happen in the 20th century, and not all of it will, but it should be noted the communist states werent truly marxist. a great if flawed mind who we all owe much too.

Of course, you can say that from the relative peace and comfort of a Western non-communist society, but millions lived and died under (and many died trying to escape from) the Communist/Marxist utopias anywhere from the Caribbean and Eastern Europe, to Africa and the Far East. Most couldn't wait to get rid of it, but I should think their opinions of Marxism count for rather more than yours.

I'm surprised that anyone would extol Marx's little Victorian-era brain fart these days, though. It must be like praising Betamax in the age of Blue Ray, ie, tried it, it was crap, and moved on many years ago.....

[postie09]

ah but he did. do you know why cliches are cliches? because over time they've been shown again and again too be true.

Cliche.. "a hackneyed phrase or opinion" Oxford English Dictionary. Nothing whatsoever to do with "shown again and again to be true".

marx was no fool. read his works and you'll see. many things he predicted have come to pass. his vision of the future didnt happen in the 20th century, and not all of it will, but it should be noted the communist states werent truly marxist. a great if flawed mind who we all owe much too.

Of course, you can say that from the relative peace and comfort of a Western non-communist society, but millions lived and died under (and many died trying to escape from) the Communist/Marxist utopias anywhere from the Caribbean and Eastern Europe, to Africa and the Far East. Most couldn't wait to get rid of it, but I should think their opinions of Marxism count for rather more than yours.

I'm surprised that anyone would extol Marx's little Victorian-era brain fart these days, though. It must be like praising Betamax in the age of Blue Ray, ie, tried it, it was crap, and moved on many years ago.....

good reading what i actually wrote there. er dont think marx ever promoted mass murder. dont think soviet was particulatly marxist, and as for most the other countries, 'marxism' was convenient banner for whatever they wanted to do. you're right in that he was very victorian minded, didn't foresee how technology would eventually help liberate the poor but victorian europe was a very different place wasn't it. him and his ilk were very important in the popularisation of the trade union movements of most of europe in the mid-1800s, and his critiques of capitalism are still shown relevant and in some cases incisive today, even if his solutions were proved largely false. not that he put forward any solutions to be 'good' he just said what he thought would inevitably rise from history. oh and many did, they just happened not to be the end of the story.

things cant be labelled so simply, ie. marx=bad, things aren't like that. sometimes he said very clever things, sometimes he said very dumb things.

the original point was that the way the business is heading is away from public service and towards pure money making. the use of mechanisation, while inevitable, emphasizes this trend. it will not make the job easier or provide a better service or a more enjoyable job, merely allow the company to make more money. it is upto the individual if they believe profit to be the sole aim of a business. i personally fear that employees will be rushed even more, lessening the non-profit good works of the royal mail, ie. community cohesion, especially in rural and isolated areas.

[postie09]

Cliche.. "a hackneyed phrase or opinion" Oxford English Dictionary. Nothing whatsoever to do with "shown again and again to be true".

fully aware of what cliche means. the reason most become hackneyed is because they are usually very true, even if obvious. its a game of two halves, take it one match a time etc etc

[Tman]

the use of mechanisation, while inevitable, emphasizes this trend. it will not make the job easier or provide a better service or a more enjoyable job, merely allow the company to make more money.

Maybe, but isn't your car/clothing/household appliances/furniture/medication/most food etc all done with or by mechanisation?

If cars, clothes, and the rest was all still done by hand, do you think the average waged working Joe could afford it?

So there are benefits to mechanisation/automation and so therefore it isn't just about making more money.

[postie09]

the use of mechanisation, while inevitable, emphasizes this trend. it will not make the job easier or provide a better service or a more enjoyable job, merely allow the company to make more money.

Maybe, but isn't your car/clothing/household appliances/furniture/medication/most food etc all done with or by mechanisation?

If cars, clothes, and the rest was all still done by hand, do you think the average waged working Joe could afford it?

So there are benefits to mechanisation/automation and so therefore it isn't just about making more money.

true in the general case but i was referring to the royal mail