CWU LOOKS AFTER ITSELF

[upmyroad]

Looks as if the CWU is looking after no-one but itself.

[Exrep]

Disagree with you there bolloxs bolloxs bolloxs

[Mercian]

Disagree with you there bolloxs bolloxs bolloxs

Very mature post and I have to disagree with you too because you obviously have no comprehension of what is going on since the CWU exec decided to sell us down the river after some of us have been out on strike for months after being GUARANTEED our unfair EA would be rescinded when negotiations started.

We were promised - stay strong, stay united, support the Union and as soon as we get RM to the negotiating table we will get what we want........

We were promised by posters on our CWU union boards that a copy of the interim agreement would be posted to our home address along with all info on the talks to date and information on all the updates. To date we have had exactly NOTHING - or maybe all the info has been lost in the post or a temp postie decided to take it home and store it rather than deliver

We have had;
No information other than what has been put out in the tabloid press.
No information other than what has been reported on national news channels
No information from Local or Branch reps
No worthwhile information posted on the CWU site
In fact NO INFORMATION AT ALL

We have to rely on what information we can glean from sites like this one which although not "official" RM sites do give some of us some useful and worthwhile information but then again we get the smatterings of uninformed rhetoric.

At the site I work, we are still working under the EA and IMPOSED duty changes forced on us. We are still working on the new SHIFT patterns forced on us by EA (just for info I now have to work NIGHT shift with enforced overtime where previously I have always worked days) and we still have no sign or mention from the CWU when or IF these changes are going to be reversed.
There are RM sites that have lost work proper to them leaving RM staff with no work to do and sites like mine who have gained work so that we have to travel to cover THEIR WORK. Those posties have lost all means of earning any extra or gaining anything other than their standard hours while we are forced to work weekends as standard, have to work bank holidays as standard and have to cover duties from other sites because our managers say they can impose this because of our "contractual obligations" - AND we are still waiting for Terry Pullinger to get off his useless, lazy arse and get this sorted after he PROMISED he would 3 months ago.
Do you think RM are going to let sites that are now overstaffed and with less work continue to run as they are at present ? Do you think RM are going to offer those people left with no work a proper redundancy package or EVR or anything similar ? Because so far they haven't ! Come January just watch for the "local" closures of offices with offers of re-employment 50 miles away or similar.......

SO if the CWU hierarchy are not looking after themselves to try and cover up the farcical balls up they have made - who are they looking after because from my (and a LOT Of my work colleagues) perspective they certainly are not looking after us.

[piranha]

It is very easy to sit there and criticize the leaders, and I agree comms are poor but there is probably a very good reason for this - we are not going to like what is agreed. But the CWU are doing the best they can in a uniquely difficult situation. The days of the local rep running the office are over. All good things come to an end. Change is a comin, if you want to blame anyone look no further than the 'flyers', the idiots who continue to cut every corner in the book to look after themselves just so they can finish early. In my office about 80% can be put in this bracket, fools.

[Big Daz]

It is very easy to sit there and criticize the leaders, and I agree comms are poor but there is probably a very good reason for this - we are not going to like what is agreed. But the CWU are doing the best they can in a uniquely difficult situation. The days of the local rep running the office are over. All good things come to an end. Change is a comin, if you want to blame anyone look no further than the 'flyers', the idiots who continue to cut every corner in the book to look after themselves just so they can finish early. In my office about 80% can be put in this bracket, fools.

Sounds like my D.O.

The bit about local rep is spot on, local reps are not there to act as a assitant manager.

[Exrep]

Mercia seen as you think i have no comprehension of what is going on .I have never heard so much clap trap in my entire life,i am very sorry to dissapoint you but i think like many posties i do comprehend what has and what is going on although we have had little correspondence on any of the talks that have been held since I.A was called off.

Our office lost money as we walked out after EA was served on us i can understand your frustration due to the monies you have lost but your not alone there.

Since the interim agreement was drew up EA has now been reversed in our office and we are now in the process of having duties put back in ( 3 walks plus a driving duty ).

Why this has happened in your office i do not know but i do know why it was reversed in our office and it was solely down to the posties seeing the light and realising they now have to do the job properly. Dont take this the wrong way but since the P/M agreement was drew up how many changes have taken place in your office in ours all were introduced. Maybe you have an arse whole of DSM and DOM that are stopping E/A being reversed .Why hasnt your rep got in touch with the area rep and lodged a complaint as to why it hasnt been reversed.

Its so easy to stamp your feet and point the finger at the union please tell me how the CWU are only looking after themselves.

Obviously you have a sixth sense and can see what is eventuall going to come out of this dispute but in the mean time you and many others want to slag off the union for what ( Not receiving any feed back from on going negoatiations ). I will agree with you on one thing and i treuly beleive for the union to keep the support of its members it should be keeping us all fully informed after every meeting they hold with R/M hopefully this will change over time.

Its the easiest thing in the world to point the finger at others and blame them for your own short comings and i for one am sick and tired of people slagging off the union when none of us really do know whats happening and whats not.

When you say SITES do you mean D/OS strange terminology that for a postie to use ????????????????????

So to my previous posting bolloxs bolloxs bolloxs i stick by what ive said as thats what it really is .Ive got young children that dont throw tantrums like this screaming and blaming others. Why dont you just stick by your union and see what we get out of all this at the end of the day instead of looking through a crystal ball and imaging what has been agreed and what hasnt .

How many people including yourself in your office do the job properly and by this i mean not working before your time,not using your car ,not running around like a headless chicken being conveyed to your walk by what ever means your walk is down for .

So as you can see MERCIA i do comprehend and to be honest if you think its childish to write bolloxs i think its very childish that grow men cant accept responseability for there own actions and stand on there own two feet and be counted.

Do you work for R/M as no one works on a b/h anymore in R/M and we are not forced to work weekends as this is a 6 day week job and on loss of earnings if people just worked there contracted hours this money they would not miss easier said than done in this day and age i know but just imagine the inpact it would have in R/M if everyone just worked there hours R/M would be up s**t creek.

I await your speedy response mercia........

[clashcityrocker]

Monkey boy
I hope you feel better now that you have got that off your chest.

[Exrep]

Clash i have and my posts are not usally that long apologies

[Doone]

Well said Monkeyboy, ....and excellent news you have got walks put back in, at your office,..take it, all the posties have worked hard to do the job as it should be done.

[Mercian]

Do you work for R/M as no one works on a b/h anymore in R/M and we are not forced to work weekends as this is a 6 day week job and on loss of earnings if people just worked there contracted hours this money they would not miss easier said than done in this day and age i know but just imagine the inpact it would have in R/M if everyone just worked there hours R/M would be up s**t creek.

I await your speedy response mercia........

well monkeyboy at least have the courtesy to get the name correct, but as the response you have made shows - you clearly do not have an inkling of what is going on around the country in all RM sites. I am glad to hear that your children do not respond so childishly as to just retort bollox.

There I go again - I used that word SITES - you see I look at RM as a whole and that includes Sorting Offices, Delivery Offices, Mail Centers, RDCs, VOCs, Workshops etc etc - u getting the picture now ? - Royal Mail SITES. See not really that strange a term given that this dispute is NATIONAL and covers a wide variety of work areas.

It is such a shame you think it is claptrap that RM employees of over 30 years service have been taken off the shifts they have chosen using their seniority and effectively been put on basic hours with no SA, shift allowance or overtime by EA.Or that other employees have been FORCED onto unacceptable shift patterns by EA. At our site, we have had no changes made to reverse any of the imposed EA and there is little prospect in the foreseeable future of any changes being made. You seem to intimate that the changes made at your office were down to the posties there "seeing the light" and now "doing the job properly".

Congratulations on your office getting what they wanted but it does beg the question as to why the job wasn't being done properly in the first place.

Let me tell you, the site I work at, the job has always been done properly. If a duty is regularly finished early then that duty is chopped and pared down by a manager so it could not be finished early. We as employees have no sway whatsoever in changing the EA introduced by our local and Area managers other than through the Union and IA that we have so far taken. It still appears to many of us that this IA was a waste of time as OUR circumstances have not and are unlikely to change. The silence from the CWU does not help the situation in the slightest. Our local and branch reps are telling us that they are getting no info back from CWU head office.

Its so easy to stamp your feet and point the finger at the union please tell me how the CWU are only looking after themselves.

Not really - after so many days and nights on the picket line I don't find the criticism easy at all but let me ask you -
when was the interim agreement made and what Official Response from the CWU has been made to its membership ?
Where are the PROMISED information packs and updates?
So if the CWU exec are not just looking out for themselves then why have they not responded at all ?
No, we may not like what they have agreed or even the way in which the discussions are progressing but as MEMBERS of the UNION we deserve to know what is going on. It wouldn't take a great deal for CWU head office to send out a newsletter to its membership detailing the current situation now would it ?

Now we come to another of your absurdities; sixth sense...... I can't recall ever predicting what the outcome of this dispute will be - perhaps you can show me the quotes to refresh my memory. Or are you perhaps talking about one of the main points of my last post which you seem to be ignoring about work being moved out from one office to another and the logical conclusion to that would be as I said

Do you think RM are going to let sites that are now overstaffed and with less work continue to run as they are at present ? Do you think RM are going to offer those people left with no work a proper redundancy package or EVR or anything similar ? Because so far they haven't ! Come January just watch for the "local" closures of offices with offers of re-employment 50 miles away or similar.......

Now, I don't think anyone needs a sixth sense or crystal ball to see the inevitability of this.

Its the easiest thing in the world to point the finger at others and blame them for your own short comings and i for one am sick and tired of people slagging off the union when none of us really do know whats happening and whats not.

Now this one confuses me - by daring to ask for information from the Union who I pay to represent me - that is a shortcoming I am blaming others for ??
You may well be prepared to be led by the nose or herded sheep like by the Union hierarchy but my view is that as a member of the Union I have a right to ask them to justify and inform me of all decisions they are making on my behalf. I shouldn't have to imagine what has been agreed or not, I shouldn't have to second guess what has been agreed in my name - I should be informed by those representing me.

If Union officials cannot fulfill the PROMISES they make then I for one will highlight this to them and other Union members at every opportunity. If you think this is slagging them off then tough - It is my right as a paid up member to do this. If I or anyone disagree with actions or policies of elected officials then they can use their vote during subsequent elections as they see fit.

How many people including yourself in your office do the job properly and by this i mean not working before your time,not using your car ,not running around like a headless chicken being conveyed to your walk by what ever means your walk is down for .

Do you work for R/M as no one works on a b/h anymore in R/M and we are not forced to work weekends as this is a 6 day week job and on loss of earnings if people just worked there contracted hours this money they would not miss easier said than done in this day and age i know but just imagine the inpact it would have in R/M if everyone just worked there hours R/M would be up s**t creek.

Now these 2 phrases show just how out of touch you are with the overall picture of what is going on around the country. Some of us don't have the myopic view you seem to have that

Royal Mail = just the little part of it in which you work

Some of us ALWAYS do the job as per the P318 as we have no other choice, not all of us walk at work.

I think if you do a little research - and it is not difficult to find, you will discover that Bank Holiday working and included overtime (under the guise of "flexibility" ) was introduced in 2007. Bank Holidays now form a normal day of work for some RM employees. Some RM employees are on a Monday to Friday contract or even some exotic combinations like Fri - Mon or Tue -Sat or Mon-Thu not just a 6 day week including Saturdays - so please, before you comment get your facts straight.

As for working contracted hours only, I think you will find that is the proposal a large part of Midlands workers wanted to do from the outset of IA but were prevented from doing so by the CWU

[Exrep]

Your epilogue is very well put.

How petty of a begining to it tho because i left the N off your name MERCIAN that spolit it tut tut tut.

Please can you show me any of my posts i have implied that i know the ins and outs of every duty in R/M ,never have i.

I post from a delivery point of view and thats all i know .

Although your epilogue seem to be more of a personnel attack on myself ( I take no offence) you still havent answered the question as to why the CWU LOOKS AFTER ITSELF.

Surely you can not think this due to there being no correspondence from them on the ongoing talks. Which in fact in my previous post i agreed with you on this but you still rattled on about this ias if i had disagreed with you but thats old ground and i aint going over it any more.

Are you a Mail center worker if you are and the mail center you worked in has recently been closed down by EA this is somethink i have no knowledge of but can see your grieveance with the union.

You said " beg the question as to why the job wasn't being done properly in the first place" At the time no one believed anythink would every happen in our office, the union were not strong enough ,E/A was served on us the office had a new rep we all took a vote on doing the job properly and R/M have realised what a mistake they made which is to our benefit hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We have people on M/F duties and never have they had to work a B/H . 10 November was the date of the interim agreement if you were not aware of it puzzled as to why you asked that really.

The talks are very complex what would you like little snippets to come out of every meeting which in the final draft may have changed over the period of negoatations as i wouldnt, but i would like to know what they have agreed on so far.

Before i go i do get my facts rite from the on goings in my whole area which is realatively small with only 12 D/Os and there are none of these ongoings in any of them . I will go further than that include the whole county i come from.

SUPPORT YOUR UNION UNTIL YOU KNOW THE FINAL OUTCOME OF THE TALKS THEN IF YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH THEM LEAVE.

[Mercian]

I usually hate doing Wall of Text posts but sometimes you just have to ..........

How petty of a begining to it tho because i left the N off your name MERCIAN that spolit it tut tut tut.

Didn't say it spoilt it - just asked for the courtesy of using the correct name. Asking for use of a correct name is hardly petty . The tutting along with the previous retorts to other posts of "bollox" continues to highlight your immaturity. I think the work you may have meant to use at the start of your discourse was monologue not epilogue.

Please can you show me any of my posts i have implied that i know the ins and outs of every duty in R/M ,never have i.

We need look no further than this very thread........

Do you work for R/M as no one works on a b/h anymore in R/M and we are not forced to work weekends

This seems like a statement of what you believe to be FACT regarding all workers in RM - or am I misconstruing what you have written ? Or am I misquoting or taking out of context what you have stated? Let me again inform you that there are workers in RM that do have to work weekends and Bank Holidays as normal days. For your further information this includes the removal of what used to be paid as Sunday Premium Allowance.

Although your epilogue seem to be more of a personnel attack on myself ( I take no offence) you still havent answered the question as to why the CWU LOOKS AFTER ITSELF.

Not a personal attack at all just a response to your immature retorts. The personal attacks seem to be your area of preference. You may take being called immature as my personal comment based on your own actions. All that is written is information from my perspective - take it or leave it, read it or ignore it.

As for the CWU looking after it's own interests show me how it isn't - It has persistently used IA at specific sites to further it's own agenda. It certainly has not used IA to improve the working conditions and removal of EA from a large portion of it's members. The latest LTB speaks volumes more in what is not talked about rather than what is written.

From LTB 1063/09 - Royal Mail Dispute - Update

- A joint statement resolving issues in London and ensuring that Royal Mail London Region complies with the full terms of the Interim Agreement.

Great for everyone working in London but by omission it smacks of the attitude "no one else in the country matters as long as we get London sorted"

The CWU have had several opportunities to gain major leverage over RM by following up some legal aspects of the imposed EA one of which being the use of strike breakers in the form of hybrid drivers, owner drivers and third party hauliers when the Network Drivers were on strike. Then the employment of the 30000 casuals as opposed to the "usual" 15000. All backed up by incriminating statements on camera from Senior RM Managers. I know the implications of what a lost injunction would have cost but the avenue for legal challenge without the injunction is still there. This is one area where the CWU should be fighting on all our behalf's yet they continue to follow their own agenda and shy away from getting a definitive verdict IN LAW. What do you think the first thing is that will happen if Network Drivers go on strike again? The Network crumbles or Stobarts ride to the rescue ?

The CWU is shying away from challenging RM on contract law - the same contract issues that have been enforced in some areas to force people to work weekends and bank holidays, to change work shifts from earlies to nights, lates to earlies and any other combination that causes the most disruption to staff (something Terry Pullinger promised in a meeting over 3 months ago to look into but still no response). Could this be because the CWU are following their own agenda and are not bothering with issues and concerns raised by the membership?

Are you aware that in some work areas new duties were created (unagreed by the CWU) and implemented in a lottery system ? Literally, names in a hat new duties in another and they were picked one by one - first name out of the hat gets the first duty out of the hat. This EA is still in place and the likelihood of any change is remote before February of next year even if new duties were agreed tomorrow.Where is that highlighted in the Update LTB about assessing the situation regarding the Interim Agreement ?

It appears anyone other than London workers, who doesn't like their new shift or work hours can either like it or lump it as far as the CWU is concerned. Yes the affected workers have the option of walking away from the job and claiming "constructive dismissal" or just carrying on regardless of home life commitments. Even if they went to ET/IT and won - it doesn't mean they will get their job back or even if reinstatement was part of the award, the new job would be on the new contract.

Now, to expand a little on the" If new duties were agreed tomorrow" remark above...... New duties may be agreed with local CWU reps but that does not take into account the reason new duties were needed. This is partly due to the Network 2009 review. It still has not been agreed with the CWU whether work proper to one site should be moved to another site without agreement - or has it? When a finalised agreement is made will work be reallocated back to it's parent office thus forcing yet another resign of duties ? Or are RM going to get their way in terms of closing all small MCs and VOCs and covering their workload with additional travel from RDCs and larger MCs further afield?

Where is the information from the CWU on this issue -what is the "official" CWU line. What discussions are they having about EVR, straight redundancy, job losses that must inevitably follow ? They are following their own agenda on so many issues and not keeping the membership informed of what that agenda is. These are BASIC questions that need answering - not in finalised detail but in a broader sense of what is the CWU agenda?

You said " beg the question as to why the job wasn't being done properly in the first place" At the time no one believed anythink would every happen in our office, the union were not strong enough ,E/A was served on us the office had a new rep we all took a vote on doing the job properly and R/M have realised what a mistake they made which is to our benefit hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This one is just priceless. Whether the union in your office was strong or not, common sense must tell some people - if the job isn't being done correctly then there must be consequences somewhere down the road. Why on Earth did you have to have a vote to decide to do the job properly ? Is that not what we are paid to do? It is exactly this mentality that landed EA on us.
Don't get me wrong, I am far, far from a RM lover as HR and my managers well know from the many grievances I taken out against them but, and I say again, common sense says you have got to do the job you are paid to do. Personally, I work the system - if the system is broken, it's not my problem, that is how I have been told and trained by RM to work. Does this work to my advantage - yes much more often than not. Does it disadvantage me - never because I work within the parameters RM expect me to. If the job doesn't get completed - I have the full protection of having worked the system given to me by my managers.

Before i go i do get my facts rite from the on goings in my whole area which is realatively small with only 12 D/Os and there are none of these ongoings in any of them . I will go further than that include the whole county i come from.

It is good to see that you are finally admitting your knowledge may be limited to the small area in which you work and not speaking for everyone in RM as you did previously.

SUPPORT YOUR UNION UNTIL YOU KNOW THE FINAL OUTCOME OF THE TALKS THEN IF YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH THEM LEAVE.

NO, far from it - harry the Union, get answers, find out what they are agreeing in my name and if I don't like it use my vote to make change from within.

[Exrep]

Jesus tonite Mercian i feel ive just sat in with my head master after reading that post.

You still have not said in any of your posts How the CWU has looked after its self and what the CWU has gained from allegedly looking after its self. As far as i was aware this dispute is not over. We had R/M by the balls and we should of squezzed them a lot tighter than we did in a way we lost the battle but we have not lost the war.

On reading your post i feel you just keep repeating yourself by re-phrasing your paragraphs.

Oviously were you work at present your FKED were i work we were fked but have now made R/M do a uturn on EA see your not alone having EA implemented on you. Your posts make out your the only office in country this has happened to but your not. In the near future hopefully your situation will change and will be made more tolerable due to what ever comes out of the final agreement.

Your post are starting to get more and more personell maybe thats due to your levels of frustration and annoyance with R/M and the CWU.

Where on earth do you get this notion i was talking about everyone in R/M what part of my post did you not understand were i said ,"i only know about delivery"

I did mean epilogue (a concluding part added to a novel).

I am not immature i take what i do and say very serious and my previous posts should of proved this .In my eyes your the school yard bully resulting to name calling but ive dealt with people like you many times grow up and stop the name calling. By name calling you just put yourself and the point your trying to get across in the gutter.

Why do you think its priceless that we had an office vote on doing the job properly whilst i shall remind you we were on un-offical I/A on were on our 4th consecutive day. I take it were you work no one comes in early ( which didnt happen in ours any way) no one uses there cars, no one takes d2ds home, no one rushes around,no one cuts paths jumps over walls .If you answer yes they do i shall chose to not beleve you. We had an office vote whilst the area and divisonal rep was present at our meeting so everyone new that once we returned to work the job was to be done properly. We had a culture of people using excuses( because Joe who they work next to also does it im going to do this) and this had to be stamped out. Where did this vote get us well in the end my friend it got us duties put back in due to the amount of monies that was being spent on a weekly basis in our office .Mock it you may but it us who are laughing now isnt it so in a way yes it is PRICELESS thats the only favourable comment you have passed so thank you for that.

To end my posts to you now, as i will not reply to you again YOU HAVE LOST FAITH IN THE UNION but lets not cast judgement on them until the conclusion of this dispute .

So MERCIAN its good bye from me i hope never to hear from you again have a nice life in R/M world and happy christmas.

Time to copy and quote away.

[Exrep]

Well said Monkeyboy, ....and excellent news you have got walks put back in, at your office,..take it, all the posties have worked hard to do the job as it should be done.

Troops have worked like trojans DOONE and i take my hat off to them and this way of working will continue in our office .

[Mercian]

First of all, as you are not going to reply..... LEARN TO READ, keep ignoring the facts, keep burying your head in the sand, keep the blinkers on if you can fit them round your rose tinted spectacles

As your post has now clearly made the issue a personal thing - your words not mine....... no the only personal comment I have made is about your immature response to posts by way of "bollox" or "tut" This I stand by - very immature response. (please note the spelling -I'm not usually the grammar or spelling Police but as you are now making it personal....)
You may think you have a mature way to act or respond and you may take your tutting and bollox very seriously, but mature, it isn't. As I say, the only personal comment I have made is calling your response to the OP immature, now if you think that is name calling and that I have now descended to gutter level then at least from your own definition, from my gutter level I will still be looking down on you. The only one here name calling is yourself - and I'm the bully ? sheesh you must have had a real hard childhood with paranoia like that.

I never have said or intimated that my office is the only one in the country affected and have clearly stated my concerns about the implications of what is happening in OTHER OFFICES - unlike yourself who seems quite happy that your SMALL office is now ok because you lot of previous malingerers have now decided to do the job properly. Bearing in mind it is the attitude of the likes of you and your office colleagues not working properly that has led to the imposition of EA on a lot of other sites that were previously working satisfactorily. Woop de doop congratulations on your self serving and selfish attitude now that you have got what YOU want - after all that is what a Union is about isn't it - looking after yourself..... <<<just in case you missed that - that is called sarcasm.

Where do I get my notion of your views on EVERYONE IN RM - well again, LEARN TO READ stop doing drugs or drinking too much alcohol because your memory is lapsing - in this thread you have stated

MoNkEyBoY wrote:Do you work for R/M as no one works on a b/h anymore in R/M and we are not forced to work weekends

which bit of this do you not comprehend or are unable to read ? After all YOU wrote it. That is where I get my notion you are talking about everyone in RM BECAUSE YOU SAID IT Oh no there I go again repeating myself because you have so much trouble comprehending.

Why do I think it is priceless that you had to have a vote on doing the job properly .... hmmmm let me get back to you on that one

FFS!!!!!!!

Again it is so good to see your mature attitude shining through for you to mock "oooo goody we now do the job properly so we got what we wanted so tough to everyone else who went on strike to support the piss poor way in which we were working" (paraphrased). As I have said previously RM is not just about sticking letters through letter boxes - there are FAR MORE ASPECTS TO THE JOB - try expanding your mind beyond the SMALL delivery office in which you have now decided to work properly


As a finale - and getting back to the subject of the original post - where are your comments about the questions that need to be answered by the Union.What's that - silence - you have no answers to give - just like the self serving Union Agenda that we are asking to hear about????

Here's hoping you get a life for Christmas and your children keep trying to educate you.