All year lapsing

[WHITEANT]

Summer lapsing in our office finished on sat 26th sep as agreed by union and managment ,on wed 30th sep the mail was heavy and the manager came round and said you will be glad to know there is no lapsing today .I mentioned that lapsing had finished he said they will carry on lapsing with the amount of mail that comes in that day .No agreement with union .The rm are putting it about that this coming strike is about london only and its nothing to do with us When we see our pay frozen , when the managment dont discuss working patters with us ,when postmen are being bullied and harrassed it has everything to do with us . :mfo

[eian687]

whats the point in wasting money on pegasus and revisions when they just add lapsing when they choose
its all BOLLOX

[Big Daz]

I challenge you to find so mething in the 2007 aggrement that says lapsing is summer only and will not take place outside of summer

The simple fact is lapsing is all year round, have Dave Ward and co come out and said different? I think not!! If they have i must have missed that one!!!


The problem is the aggrement was not complete when we voted on it as pahse 3 ws justya few broad staements and zero nitty gritty, once the nitty grity was worked out is was imposed by CWU and RML on us with out any vote what so ever.

Summer lapsing came under phase 2, phase 3 nitty gritty was worked out AFTER phase 2 was implemented and agreed in D.O's. Phase 3 allows for lapsing when their is absence and when workload declines. Phase 3 say NOTHING about any paticular time of year.


That my friends is the raw hard unplatable truth of what we agreed and had imposed on us.

[Big Daz]

http://www.cwu.org/ltb-560/08-pay-and-m ... rease.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LTB 560/08 Pay and Modernisation Phase 3 – 1.5% Pay Increase

Further to LTB 530/08 which informed Branches that negotiations were taking place to conclude two options for National deployment (one for Delivery and one for Mail Centres/Collection Hubs) to secure the 1.5% pay increase as soon as possible.



We can now report that these discussions have now concluded an Agreement on how Phase 3 of the Pay and Modernisation Agreement will be introduced into all Delivery Offices, Processing Units and Collection Hubs which has been endorsed by the Postal Executive at its meeting held on Wednesday 16th July 2008.



The process has been simplified but builds on the flexibility and new ways of working achieved under Phase 2. It has been agreed to introduce Cross Functional Working within all Mail Centres and that every Delivery Officewill identify/implementgenuine opportunities to absorb Outdoor and/or Indoor workload where time exists within approved attendance times/normal paid work hours. Branches/Representatives will be aware that these arrangements already operate in a number of Units and the joint commitment is that they will now be introduced in all Units as appropriate in line with the attached Agreement.



In view of the fact it has been agreed Nationally that every Unit will apply the attached Agreement the 1.5% will now be paid (for weekly staff on the 8th August, backdated to 7th April and for monthly staff with August salaries) to all eligible grades/functions under the Pay and Modernisation Agreement that have not already secured separate Agreements. The intention will be to brief Field Officials to fully explain the details over the next few days so that they are able to assist Branches/Representatives with any points of clarification regarding the deployment process.



In the meantime any enquiries regarding this LTB should be directed to the appropriate National Officer responsible Martin Collins (Indoor) or Bob Gibson (Outdoor).

[spilie]

cheers for the explanation daz and as you point out mistakes galore made by our negotiating team, this is a prime example of how we should learn from the past, when we get the big yes we need to hammer it home and get everything we can and make sure its watertite, no cooling off, no more compromises this could be our last chance to achieve the best deal for the future we must not sell out again

[bogstandard]

The problem is the aggrement was not complete when we voted on it as pahse 3 ws justya few broad staements and zero nitty gritty, once the nitty grity was worked out is was imposed by CWU and RML on us with out any vote what so ever.

How very true, those that voted in favour (and they do exist) voted in a blank cheque. now those chicken are coming home to roost its the unions fault. From one view they're right but on the other hand if they had read the proposal they could have rejected it.

In 07 our deputy phoned all and sundry trying to get a copy of the appendix mentioned in the agreement, always being told "the appendix should be in your copy of the agreement ask around you office for it". Well i will tell you no one in my office had any appendix. on the back of this our branch returned a no vote "alledgedly" according to our area rep.

[dvbuk55]

The process has been simplified but builds on the flexibility and new ways of working achieved under Phase 2. It has been agreed to introduce Cross Functional Working within all Mail Centres and that every Delivery Officewill identify/implementgenuine opportunities to absorb Outdoor and/or Indoor workload where time exists within approved attendance times/normal paid work hours. Branches/Representatives will be aware that these arrangements already operate in a number of Units and the joint commitment is that they will now be introduced in all Units as appropriate in line with the attached Agreement.

The trouble is, and I say this because I work in a DO. there is no identifying genuine opportunities there is simply an imposition on any pretext. There is also the issue of the 3.5 hour delivery as agreed and the 4.15 park and loop delivery time, which is agreed in principle but as far as I know not ratified, but is still being included in the "all year" lapsing, thereby taking the delivery time close to 5 hours. Now is that right or wrong under the agreement? The fact that park and loop wasn't part of the agreement per se but a supposed trial under phase 4 which has been, again, imposed without agreement.

Some offices may well not have had these changes imposed but they are on the way for all UNLESS we make a stand now and although we have to accept the changes, we should at least have a part in their implementation.

[robd]

big daz,i accept what you say to a point,however the p&m agreement is about adhereing to all 4 phases,the problem is RM don't want to bother with phase 2 .
our rep has no involvement whatsoever,although it clearly states weekly resourcing meetings should take place,we have no record of any volumes of mail,and where it says everyone should contribute,we now have to see the manager on an individual basis as to who he believes can lapse,also it doesn´t say anything about permanently lapsing a duty,and this is a blatant abuse of the agreement .
we registered a stage 1 disagreement on these issues several months ago,and so far we have received no response

[WHITEANT]

If a manager asks u to do lapsing ,it has to be within your hours .They will say you have to do half an hour flexability a day the union says its half an hour a week but must be paid back in that week .The postman is his worst own enemy , coming in early,not taking your full 40 min break,not putting seat belts on everytime you get into van , not putting all your mail in back of van apart from bundle for the road your on and just BELTING round like a lunatic .In team talks you get all the usual stuff sign in sign out ,reflector jackets on but u never here managers saying,you must put your seat belts on at all times ,no mail in front , make sure you take your full 40 min break why .Because it slows everything down and they dont want that .Remember when your flying round like lunatics ,the managments bonus gets bigger !!

[Big Daz]

I dont recall seeing in phase 2 how often you can or cant flex by 30 mins in any given week, only thing I can see is that time has to be given back the same week. The wording in the national aggrement is as follows

Variation of hours – Where necessary, for example when traffic
volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues arise, individuals
may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by
up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual
circumstances will be taken into account and total weekly contractual
hours would not change.

[hertsman0]

Done lapsing in our office all year round apart from Christmas.We was told just the summer months only in 2008.Then September last year we was told it would be all year round as people were making to much time.The union couldnt do anything about as people kept coming back early.

[Big Daz]

Ive got in writing what is to happen in my D.O under absorption, that is up to two urban cycle delivery duties absorbed but only on weekdays and any uncovered work after that is overtime

Next week we absorbing two days only and only one delivery on each of those two days.

[dvbuk55]

Ive got in writing what is to happen in my D.O under absorption, that is up to two urban cycle delivery duties absorbed but only on weekdays and any uncovered work after that is overtime

Next week we absorbing two days only and only one delivery on each of those two days.

And is everyone doing their share or are there exceptions?

[Big Daz]

Part timers exempted, time does not exist on PT duties.

Other than that all FT duties abosorb when required.

[dvbuk55]

Part timers exempted, time does not exist on PT duties.

Other than that all FT duties abosorb when required.

I'll just bet you're part time and the full timers at your office are overjoyed with the deal - our part timers also do lapsed because the time saving element must be the same across the board if a duty is 3.5 hrs as it's supposed to be. So part timers in your office do nothing - yep that seems a fair distribution right enough. Im sure you'll have a plausible explanation though.