banking hours

[fleecy]

yesterday in our office it was an unusually light day, so i finished an hour early for the 1st time this year, today the mail volume was high again and when i informed my line manager that i would be extending out i was told i had 2 work over my time for free as i owed them an hour from the previous day, this is the 1st time i have ever heard of this, my union rep and manager were still argueing about this when i left the office, but i fully intend 2 go straight in the office tomorrow and argue my point, as i think i should be paid the overtime as there is no agreement on banking hours, if this is the case why does my manager turn a blind eye 2 the 70% of the office that has been finishing early for the last year while im working my butt off booking overtime every week, maybe i should start cutting off instead!
any advice 2 what i should say 2 my manager gratefully received thanks

[tailfly12]

Read the agreement longs and shorts. The manger's is right you have to work all the hours your paid to work. The only way to do it is don't come back early stay out until your finish time.

[banner18]

Read the agreement longs and shorts. The manger's is right you have to work all the hours your paid to work. The only way to do it is don't come back early stay out until your finish time.

True, but they cannot carry hours from one day to another. The manager could keep you in the office to your time, on the lighter day, maybe finding you something to do. Obviously unfair because the people who don't return and finish early don't have this problem. One of the reasons why this dispute has arisen.

[Cut Off King]

Read the agreement longs and shorts. The manger's is right you have to work all the hours your paid to work. The only way to do it is don't come back early stay out until your finish time.

WRONG

Longs & shorts have to be agree'd - A dom cant suddenly decide that today is long and tomorrow is short because he feels like it.
It has to be a pre existing duty time .
i.e. - mon- tues 0500 to 1300
wed- fri 0500 to 1400
sat 0600 to 1100

That sort of arangement

NOT an as I feel like it dom arangement

[steven100]

And i'm pretty sure its only 30 mins. They can only ask you to work 30 mins over your time and you'd receive it back that week.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

And i'm pretty sure its only 30 mins.

its is and its voluntary and not to be used regularly either as apparently its for unforeseen problems that have not been forecast. So if you have it the same day every week then its not unforeseen really.

[POSTMAN]

my union rep and manager were still argueing

That's good,ignore your manager,there is no agreement as you say,if they dont pay the docket then cut off.

[fleecy]

Thanks postman, i will be speaking with my union rep in the morning and in future i will make sure im never put in this position again! They do try 2 get away with some dirty tricks if we let them!

[Ahebban]

Yes, the agreement does state that ''all hours are to be utilised'' .. meaning that all hours on that particular day are to be filled, not balanced one day against another during the same week, so preventing legitimate pressure overtime being claimed. If you arrive back at the DO ahead of your normal finishing time the LM/DOM are entitled to find you work to enable you to utilise your hours for that day.

We have a local agreement covering Long and Short days. For example, if we have a late finish on Tuesday we either book the o/t or he invokes the 30 minutes. The DOM rarely invokes the 30 minutes as he would find it difficult to give us the time back later in the week. The DOM has tried to bank/balance hours and I have told him that when he comes to me with the relevant documentation agreed by RM and CWU we will comply. Needless to say, I am still waiting!

Banking hours, along with annualised hours, was part of Phase 4, the phase that RM walked away from and refused to participate in discussion with CWU. It is only now, 17 months AFTER phase 4 should have been signed off, that RM have acknowledged that there was even a fourth phase to the Agreement!

It makes you wonder how RM managed to count up to 10 when announcing budget cuts and falling mail percentages when they struggle to get as far as 1 .. 2 .. 3 .........................4 .. 5 .. ummmmmmmm

I am sure in the download section there is a complete copy of the 2007-2009 Pay and Modernisation Agreement which you can download/print and show your Rep/LM/DOM the relevant phase 4 section.

[andy2007]

I hate to admit it. But it's been in at our place for quite a while now. They call it TOIL (how appropriate!). But we're stuck with it!

[POSTMAN]

Phase4

To assist development of a fourth Phase of Royal Mail modernisation, consultation and negotiation will now take place in the following working groups. The intention is for these joint working groups to develop national agreements, where appropriate, by no later than the end of April 2008, to be deployed as soon as possible thereafter.

Joint Working Group 1 – Relationships. will consider how to improve industrial relations within Royal Mail, including arrangements for negotiation, consultation and decision-making, the management of change, personnel procedures and practices covering issues like attendance, conduct and performance management.

Joint Working Group 2 – New Reward Framework will examine pay simplification possibilities (within the existing pay bill), a new pay and reward package, different pay models, reviewing on what the local element of the ColleagueShare dividend for years 2 and 3 will be based and MTSF. The Group will also consider how to implement monthly pay. It will also review annualised hours or banked hours, flexible working, and possible changes to attendance patterns that could both benefit the business and employees and is in line with the company’s family-friendly policy. The group will decide whether it needs to operate sub groups for any element of this.

Joint Working Group 3 – Future working. This group will look at the business’ future mail centre / delivery / network strategies and have an opportunity to input to them.. It will develop proposals on how the business will best capture the benefits of new technology, whilst continuing to consider the implications for job security, and job design and the new delivery model. It will also look at the strategies needed to grow and develop the business in a changing, competitive environment

[OnAFlyer]

Banking hours was tried at our office. We were supposed to bank 5 hrs per week for 12 weeks, then pay back the 60 hours via free OT, or coming in early etc. Everyone stopped using their cars and rushing round, and in the end the average banked hours for the 12 weeks was less than 10 - quite a lot were actually owed hours, one guy more than 30

Usuprisingly it was scrapped, and it's partly why I keep saying RM won't force us to actually work until time - they know by doing that they won'tget any more productivity as people won't fly around to work for free. They just want us all to do a 3.5hr walk and they don't care what time we finish as long as we don't cut off or claim - the problem with that for posties is that 3.5hr walks as turned out by Pegasus/Georoute seem to be anything from 2hrs 30 to 5hrs+.

Trying to push more and more onto staff doesn't work, look what's happening now. I may be critical of a certain section of posties who are on a deliberate go slow (there is more than one in my office) but I know there are a lot of genuine ones that are struggling.

[woofwoof]

I hate to admit it. But it's been in at our place for quite a while now. They call it TOIL (how appropriate!). But we're stuck with it!

how can it be in someone must of signed this off

[pickaname]

Banking hours was tried at our office. We were supposed to bank 5 hrs per week for 12 weeks, then pay back the 60 hours via free OT, or coming in early etc. Everyone stopped using their cars and rushing round, and in the end the average banked hours for the 12 weeks was less than 10 - quite a lot were actually owed hours, one guy more than 30

Usuprisingly it was scrapped, and it's partly why I keep saying RM won't force us to actually work until time - they know by doing that they won'tget any more productivity as people won't fly around to work for free. They just want us all to do a 3.5hr walk and they don't care what time we finish as long as we don't cut off or claim - the problem with that for posties is that 3.5hr walks as turned out by Pegasus/Georoute seem to be anything from 2hrs 30 to 5hrs+.

Trying to push more and more onto staff doesn't work, look what's happening now. I may be critical of a certain section of posties who are on a deliberate go slow (there is more than one in my office) but I know there are a lot of genuine ones that are struggling.

i dont believe that 'go slows' exist.

I always work to my time, even on the lightest days. I make sure I divide my walk up so i finish bang on - unless its really heavy, then i cut off or claim. i wouldnt say i was deliberately going slow as im allowed 3.5hrs to complete.

Tuesday at 1pm i was stopped by a line manager on patrol looking for people who were finishing early as it was light. Had I finished? Nope.

This thread highlights the need for all of us to work the 3.5hr delivery span every day no matter what. You are given 3.5 hrs so use it. All of it, or expect to have more work dumped on you.

[OnAFlyer]

i dont believe that 'go slows' exist.

I always work to my time, even on the lightest days. I make sure I divide my walk up so i finish bang on - unless its really heavy, then i cut off or claim. i wouldnt say i was deliberately going slow as im allowed 3.5hrs to complete.

Tuesday at 1pm i was stopped by a line manager on patrol looking for people who were finishing early as it was light. Had I finished? Nope.

This thread highlights the need for all of us to work the 3.5hr delivery span every day no matter what. You are given 3.5 hrs so use it. All of it, or expect to have more work dumped on you.

If you can do your delivery in 3.5hrs most days, how do you make it last 3.5hrs on the lightest days if you're not going slower than normal?