a simple solution to end all problems...............

[RoyalQuest]

Clocking in machine , clock in on your start time and everyone is to be conveyed back to the delivery office to pouch off and to then clock off. If this happened in my office the s**t would hit the fan, no one would come in early as there would be no point, people would have there 40 minute meal relief before going out and nobody would use there cars as you would get them after you have clocked off. Managers would be totally fuc**d. people would be cutting off left right and centre, there wouldn't be talks of more cuts but what to put back in!! 8 hours work for 8 hours pay!!!!!

[Stormproof]

We mentioned clocking in/off machines about 2 years ago at my office, nothing heard since. I think it would be a good idea, 99% of us have nothing to hide(except the runners and the ones who use their own cars). RM would have to pay O/T as they can't bullshit their way out of the times you come back, 1 minute over = 1 minute overtime no being accused of fiddling docket then.

[Lounge Lizard]

But if the managers had to clock off when they had a coffee and clock back on again when they finished it .....

[MAILMAN84]

Oh right, thought u were gonna say suicide :)

[zack]

If your office uses the pda it logs your times when starting and finishing

[concerneduk]

If your office uses the pda it logs your times when starting and finishing

Only when you log on and off it though, I log mine off as soon as used it for last time sometimes an hour before finished if don't need it.

[manc_daddy]

ive written to several mps and journalists over the past few days and told them the exact same thing about the benefits of of clocking on/off machines and how that would stop all the IA round the country. they say they wont modernization what modern work place doesn't have one of these machines and in my work place this would create at least 10 full time jobs and there would be no job losses at all all over the country.

[zack]

If your office uses the pda it logs your times when starting and finishing

Only when you log on and off it though, I log mine off as soon as used it for last time sometimes an hour before finished if don't need it.

Well we are only allowed to log on when we are finished our duty. Therfore the dom knows our finishing time.

[Pat Ostman]

Your reasons for having a clocking machine of course are the reason why we will never get one

[darth]

http://www.primemark.com/epos/time-attendance.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this has a good link on the advantages and disadvantages of clocking in,i tried to copy it with no joy.
my problem would be in the current climate royal mail would use this as yet another tool to discipline and ultimatally get rid of staff.

[banner18]

Until there is a clocking in and out system including conveyance back to the office, postal workers will get no respite.
There are two forces working against this happening.
1. Individual SELFISHNESS of postal workers who must always be able to gain some time by doing the job incorrectly even though they know the working hours they should be doing and spoiling it for anyone else who does the duty properly after them.
2. Royal Mail GREED, keeping this system in place that saves them money but keeps the fruits of task and finish, so that they can keep piling more and more work onto postal workers.

It is a sad reflection of the society we live in Selfishness and greed, selfishness and greed, greed, greed, greed, selfishness, selfishness, selfishness.

Ultimately postal workers are more guilty because they have the power to do the job properley and Royal mail would have no choice but to allow it. Royal Mail should be honouring the 2007 agreement (containing the working all paid hours stipulation) by bringing in a culture change whereby all postal workers have to do the job properly. Only then would there be no hiding place for anybody and fairness would reign supreme.

Alas this is but a dream whilst selfishness and greed rule......

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.primemark.com/epos/time-attendance.php

this has a good link on the advantages and disadvantages of clocking in,i tried to copy it with no joy.
my problem would be in the current climate royal mail would use this as yet another tool to discipline and ultimatally get rid of staff.

Staff Time Keeping

History
In 1889, Bundy Manufacturing Company (now known as IBM) invented and mass-produced the fist time clock, also known as a Clock Card Machine, Punch Clock or a Time Recorder. These were mechanical timepieces used to track employee working hours. They required staff to insert and line up the correct areas (time in and time out) of their own individual time cards and place them into a slot in the time machine. When the card hit a certain point at the back of the slot, the date and time would be ‘punched’ onto the card allowing an official record of worked hours to be kept by employers. They also assisted the process of pay. These time machines were first linked to microprocessors in the late 1970’s and began to completely move away from mechanical systems in the 1990’s, when computer based electronic systems began to replace older systems.

New Timekeeping Methods
The older methods of timekeeping were unreliable and easily outsmarted by dishonest employees which ultimately resulted in financial loses to companies. There is now a wide and diverse range of timekeeping systems that are available for both large and small businesses, which give detailed information regarding employee hours, lateness, breaks and absences. These include simple time sheets, an updated and more technical version of the old punch clocks, ID card systems and even biometric systems, which identify staff through biological attributes, such as fingerprints. These systems are not over-expensive and are always a cost effective method in the long run.

Benefits
The Chartered Institute of Personnel Development’s annual report shows that 46% of businesses monitor the actual cost of staff absence. It is estimated to cost employers £588 and an average of 9.1 days a year per employee being taken off, due to illness. Last year alone, thirty three million working days were taken off because of this. These figures help to explain why employers are finding it increasingly difficult to fund the control of these absences. Not only does it cause financial difficulties but can also cause problems such as resentment between employees. New timekeeping technology is essential for avoiding these issues as well as providing many benefits, which include:

· Avoiding admin errors with regards to timekeeping.
· Accurately tracks all employee working hours
· Highlights lateness and absences.
· Logs all break times and can encourage punctuality when returning from lunch, breaks, etc.
· Removes manual work from payroll processes.
· Correctly registers overtime, and reduces any unnecessary overtime taken.
· Monitors and reports large volumes of employee information so you don’t have to.
· Biometric systems make it impossible for employees to ‘fake’ time sheets.

Time keeping software can also benefit the employee as well as the employer, especially those who work from home.
· It can prove to employers that home workers can be trusted to work productively on their own without supervision.
· With time keeping systems, there cannot be any dispute over pay, and every employee will be paid what they have earned.
· There is also no time consuming paper work to be filled out on a monthly, weekly or even daily basis.
· Any overtime worked will be recorded and reported to employers on behalf of all employees.

Disadvantages
There will always be disadvantages to any changes made within a company, mainly due to the fact that you cannot please everyone. Some of these disadvantages may include:
· Some members of staff not agreeing with the more personal biometric method of time keeping, due to the fact that it borders on Invasion of Privacy.
· Low employee morale may occur due to the feeling of being constantly monitored.
· Many may feel that information could be lost if ever there are technical faults, and therefore manual time sheets will still need to be kept.
· It can be a hassle having to remember to clock in and out every time someone has to leave the building, which could result in errors in pay.

Alternatives
There are alternative ways of monitoring staff time keeping although not all are as effective as the more technological systems available.
· Allowing some staff hours to be more flexible may help reduce absenteeism. According to recent studies, many people wish to balance work and family life and many employers are recognising that flexibility does not only avoid absence but also helps to retain a good relationship with employees.
· Trusting employees to arrive and leave work on time is what many small businesses still do today, as employers can monitor employees for absences, breaks, and leaving at the end of the day, etc.
· Employees can fill out their own timesheets everyday, and be paid according to the times that they enter. Some may feel that by entering their own exact times, their pay will be accurate.


The alternatives ways to staff timekeeping systems are not reliable. There are many different systems available depending on the nature and size of the business, all of which can monitor staff on an employers behalf. This allows more time and money to focus on the more important aspects of a business. There may be disadvantages to using new technology systems but these are always outweighed by the benefits. By saving time and money with a system able to monitor staff, employers can concentrate on running a successful business.

The Working Time Directive
The Working Time Directive 1993 was introduced to regulate hours of work and provide a guideline for Health and Safety for employees as it has been proven that those who work long hours are more likely to suffer illness or accident. One of the key issues that it highlighted is that the maximum hours of work must be 48 hours a week. Employees can ‘opt out’ of this limit when they sign an individual ‘opt out’ agreement. This allows them to work longer hours if they wish and requires employers to keep a strict record of every employee who does, so the necessary authorities have access to this information.

The benefits of the Working Time Directive on employees include:
· The 48-hour limit means employees cannot be overworked and gives flexibility for those with families to balance work with other commitments.
· This limit also includes overtime.
· The ‘opt out’ clause means that if an employee chooses not sign the agreement then they cannot be penalised for not wanting to work extra hours.
· It entitles full time employees to four weeks paid annual holiday.
· All employees are entitled to at least a twenty-minute break if they are working a shift of six hours or more.
· A minimum of 11 hours rest must be taken for every twenty-four hours worked.
· Night work is limited to eight hours in each twenty-four.
· If working ‘on-call’, employees are classed as working and these hours can contribute towards the actual amount worked.

There are also benefits for employers:
· By following the regulations set out in the directive, employers cannot be accused of treating employees unfairly.
· Employers allowing workers to work shorter hours can achieve greater flexibility and productivity.
· The ‘opt out’ clause allows employers to find and employ workers that are willing to work extra hours meaning that the efficiency of work done after hours will be greater.
· Industrial accidents and general mistakes caused by loss of concentration and/or tiredness are avoided.

[darth]

thanks for that .

[andy2007]

So long as they didn't use a Biometric, or similar system. I'd be happy to use a Clocking In machine. But when I suggested it to my Rep, a couple of years ago. I was told that the Union was against their introduction. I'm not sure whetehr that's the National view, or just my Branch. But I assume that he was referring to National Policy.

[darth]

if they got the correct software they could potentially reduce alot of paperwork currently undertaken by office staff and human resources.or perhaps royal mail is too large a company for a system to work on a national basis.or being a pessimist if royal mail want to follow the dutch ,why have a clocking in system when the mail is taken out to post persons!