Unfair dismissal?

[dava]

Hello,
I worked for Royal Mail for 5 years, I had a clean record in regards to disciplinary. I was forced to swap my usual duty for another duty when i came in on my day off to do overtime. I did not prep the delivery but i was the one who delivered it. I encountered alot of problems on the walk like a very high amount of missorts/dog loose and no access to flats which use the trade button. I worked over my time to try and complete the delivery (which i achieved). I then went home to get changed,I had a special delivery to be returned and 52 letters which i could not get delivered. When my lift arrived i grabbed the special and headed back to the office where i left the special back, unfortunately i forgot to lift the other mail. After returning the special i had plans which took me to 6pm. When i returned home to prep door to doors i realisied i have the mail, the office was closed so i held onto it until the next morning. There was nothing else i could of done. I planned on approaching my DOM that morning and explaining the situation. Unfortunately when i entered the office i was approached by my DOM and searched, nobody else was searched and he admitted he had no reason to search me. I was immediately questioned about each individual letter and in the spare of the moment i got confused and gave the wrong explanation for some of the letters. I was suspended. He later went out and took photos of each house and doubted my honesty. To sum it all up i was dismissed and lost my appeal. I lodged an unfair dismissal claim. I was not going to continue with the claim which is this Monday. But i have changed my mind and do not want to let them get away with it. Does anyone have any information or thought on my case it would be greately appreciated.

Thanks and sorry for the rant.

[Pat Ostman]

Well to me it sounds like unexused delay of mail which is normally not sackable. However it seems to me you were 'done' with wilful delay.

Yes I would continue with the case but your problems lie with what you said at your fact finding interview (if indeed you even had one) as I believe new evidence cannot be brought up at tribunal cases.

These are some of the questions the tribunal need to ask/know.

1) Did you endorse the letters BEFORE you got to the DO? Or at least when you got home?
2) Do you have an ID Card?
3) Did you sign a form of consent to be searched.
4) Can you prove others in the office 'bring home mail' / post in letterbox
5) Have you been sufficiantley trained?
6) Have you an office telephone number which you could have left a message on?
7) Is it a new delivery not done before/provided maps?
8) Did you claim overtime which would have allowed enough time to deliver missorts?
9) Why could you not deliver the 52 letters, sadly they need to be individually endorsed (but if you have not been trained?....)
10) Were the letters left in your bag? You only say you forgot to lift them.

I am sure others will pop in to offer support.

[BELIAL]

Don't prep d2d's at home,it is a sackable offence

[dava]

Well to me it sounds like unexused delay of mail which is normally not sackable. However it seems to me you were 'done' with wilful delay.

Yes I would continue with the case but your problems lie with what you said at your fact finding interview (if indeed you even had one) as I believe new evidence cannot be brought up at tribunal cases.

1) Did you endorse the letters BEFORE you got to the DO? Or at least when you got home?
2) Do you have an ID Card?
3) Did you sign a form of consent to be searched.
4) Can you prove others in the office 'bring home mail' / post in letterbox
5) Have you been sufficiantley trained?
6) Have you an office telephone number which you could have left a message on?
7) Is it a new delivery not done before/provided maps?
8) Did you claim overtime which would have allowed enough time to deliver missorts?

I am sure others will pop in to offer support.

I Brought up the "new evidence" after the fact finding interview, at the two interviews before my dismissal. I also brought this up at my appeal but was told that my integrity was questionable.

1) I didnt endorse the mail, i did not touch the mail at all, i left it as it is until i got into the office.
2) did have an ID card but im not sure why you ask the question. (please elaborate)
3) I did not sign a form of consent, i didnt even get to sign in before i was searched.
4) Others do bring home mail intentionally, although i would not get other people involved that could possibly leave themselves open to disciplinary.
5) I have been trained but the duty in question has alot of flats which require access through trade button.(which gets disabled after 11am)
6) I do have the telephone number but there is no answering machine on it
7)covered on Q 5)
8) I worked slightly over my time but i could not go back with all of the missorts to attempt redelivery.

My union rep tried to get my penalty reduced to unintentional delay but they were having none of it.

Thanks alot for the advice and interest, it is appreciated

[dava]

Don't prep d2d's at home,it is a sackable offence

In my office it was overlooked by the manager, he actually suggested it to many of us, He used to let my girlfriend park the car in the carpark to fill the car up with them. I reported him for it to his area manager but of course it went under the carpet

[Pat Ostman]

I asked about the ID Card because there is a lot of staff without them and the IB branch would frown upon your managers if you did not have one. It also leaves them open about why you were unable to return mail if the DO is locked and only an ID Card gains access.

Why did they say you were lying? Which is obviously what they are hinting at, what are their reasons - did they ever tell you?

The tribunal are the one's that will determine that, NOT THEM, so chin up!

[Pat Ostman]

1) I didnt endorse the mail, i did not touch the mail at all, i left it as it is until i got into the office.

That could well be your biggest problem sadly

It's better to endorse the mail so you know EXACTLY why each letter/parcel could not be delivered (dog loose/flats/missorts/no access etc). This means you can give a perfect account to every single item. Technically though it might not have made much of a difference if they were gunning for you.

However, the Royal Mail/CWU guidelines is that "Mistakes do happen and it is not the intention of Royal Mail to dismiss for genuine cock ups"

From what you say, it seems harsh and you could have a case.

[dava]

I asked about the ID Card because there is a lot of staff without them and the IB branch would frown upon your managers if you did not have one. It also leaves them open about why you were unable to return mail if the DO is locked and only an ID Card gains access.

Why did they say you were lying? Which is obviously what they are hinting at, what are their reasons - did they ever tell you?

The tribunal are the one's that will determine that, NOT THEM, so chin up!

If i had an id card or not, NO-one gets access to the building once it is closed.

He said im lying because he drove past the area in question where i said the dog was loose, he did not see the dog a week later on the same street so he " doubts my integrity" in his words. It was an honest mistake, but unfortunately RM do not see us as humans.

[Pat Ostman]

he did not see the dog a week later on the same street so he " doubts my integrity" in his words.

Thats laughable, he cannot prove a negative. The dog was not there later, so what - and I doubt he even went back more than once. The tribunal will ignore this crap observation by your manager, or at least they should. Bloody hell does he not know about escaped dogs? They bloody roam!

In our DO we can get access using the ID Card as we have a few night staff left.

[dava]

In our DO we can get access using the ID Card as we have a few night staff left.

Your right, it is laughable. It all came down to me getting confused in the spare of the moment about 15 or so letters when he asked me why i couldnt deliver them. I never really got round to asking the union to take the case for me, i was in the CWU. The case is this Monday, im consider seeing a brief tomorrow and gettting the case adjourned until i get a defence sorted out. whats your views on this thanks?

[spilie]

should have just hid it in an artic lorry then you would have been suspended with full pay then reinstated then promoted then given a pay rise

[Pat Ostman]

should have just hid it in an artic lorry then you would have been suspended with full pay then reinstated then promoted then given a pay rise

too true and this is what makes me sick about the place. The injustice...

[dava]

should have just hid it in an artic lorry then you would have been suspended with full pay then reinstated then promoted then given a pay rise

too true and this is what makes me sick about the place. The injustice...

Thanks for the interest guys, i will check back tomorrow nite

[norbert]

should have just hid it in an artic lorry then you would have been suspended with full pay then reinstated then promoted then given a pay rise

too true and this is what makes me sick about the place. The injustice...

yeah ! - because if RM leant onto them too hard , you'd get bitter managers with big chips on their shoulders singing like canaries outside RM , where does the buck stop ? or who are the organ grinders & who are the monkeys .

Most places fear that scenario , RM take things to extremes . As for the dismissal , they must have been desperate ! - probably all quite deliberate to create a culture of fear to soften staff & the union up for privatization

[fmrPOSTIE]

As always its very difficult for us to give advice as we dont know the full facts. But...this decision to dismiss look very questionable. Please go ahead with the claim.

Exactly what where you dismissed for OP?