PAY AND MODERNISATION 2009/2011

[dvbuk55]

Thought I'd start the thread early then we can see what the future holds in store, or perhaps we could start a wish list of what we'd like, no one's asked us yet. Perhaps we should be balloted on the things that we consider important before negotiations start. We prioritise from 1 to 10 those things we consider to be most desirable, all the answers would be collated and the result handed to RM - lets for arguments sake say that items 1 to 4 the membership consider essential and if we don't get them we'll ballot for industrial action, items 5 to 8 are less important but we may ballot for industrial action, 9 and 10 are open to negotiation. We could probably speed things up instead of taking another 6 months to accept what was on the table in the first place.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

35hr working week - especially if they are going to extend the outdoor element.

National agreement on lapsing whether permanent or ad hoc.

National standards or agreement of 2 in a Van.

National agreement for walking PDAs - why not have it ready to go before it needs to come in (its called being pro-active)

Ratified D2D agreement to be publicised - no changes just clarification - I know its going to change but members are being given or are acting on incorrect information.

[johnnyp]

3.5 Hour Max Delivery Span Anything above that is to long for alot of the membership to cope with.

[dvbuk55]

Keep 'em coming we may come up with an agenda - there doesn't seem to be another one!

[dvbuk55]

We are still waiting for the ballot on the pension - though I doubt we'll ever see that - but hey they managed to seperate that from the Pay and Mod issue - and I just wonder if that was so they could recommend acceptance, which I feel sure they wouldn't have got if that had still been an issue. But hey lets not dwell on the past but look forward to our next pay rise

[lovejoy]

Thought I'd start the thread early then we can see what the future holds in store, or perhaps we could start a wish list of what we'd like, no one's asked us yet. Perhaps we should be balloted on the things that we consider important before negotiations start. We prioritise from 1 to 10 those things we consider to be most desirable, all the answers would be collated and the result handed to RM - lets for arguments sake say that items 1 to 4 the membership consider essential and if we don't get them we'll ballot for industrial action, items 5 to 8 are less important but we may ballot for industrial action, 9 and 10 are open to negotiation. We could probably speed things up instead of taking another 6 months to accept what was on the table in the first place.

I agree with you on the raising the issue bit but no numbering our Priorities 1 - 10. We should always keep our cards close to out chest for negotiations. if management have the results from a consultation ballot then they will twist it to say 'look its not that important to your members'. Any ballot would also have to protect smaller grades as for example if a question was about amalgamating allowances into pay ex-phgs still receiving £20 may vote against but be outvoted by the majority.

The best way around this (im my humble opinion) is for reps/members to pass motions via their branches then get the Branch to official write a policy document to cwu hq and maybe circulate it everywhere.

Johnny p 3.5 hr deliveries will go mate i'm sure of that!...... It will be a bitter pill to swallow but with walk sequencing machines coming in the walking element will have to be extended in order to maximise full time work. This doesnt mean it has to be more time on the street pounding your round. the CWU must be innovative on this issue. For example you could do your 3.5 hr walk then come back and pick up some 'same day delivery' mail where customers have paid a high premium for courier style service. This would be much lighter and less strenuous than an extended delivery.

Issues that need to be bottomed out in an all emcompassing agreement in my view include

Royal Mail bullying antics in every workplace
A national delivery framework
A National Mail Centre network agreement
New IR Framework
Pensions (which will obviously include negotiations with Government as well as RM)
Modernisation - New Equipment in all areas of the industry

Slightly smaller issues which never seem to be dealt with....
Pay - Allowances consolidated? Monthly pay?
D2D
...... a few more but my daughter wants her tea lol

[Martin Walsh]

Lovejoy agree with most things you mentioned but do not believe we need a new IR framework. The fact is that Royal Mail want to minimise what is subject to negotiaton this came out clearly within the joint working party. We do not need to reopen it now especially as with the new regions Royal Mail have moved back to the 1992 Royal Mail divisons.

I do not believe that Royal Mail will seriously want to give out release to local officials which is really the attraction for the union in re opening the disucssions.
Royal Mail made it clear that whilst it didt have an agenda to reduce union release costs it was not going to increase them.

With regards to 3.5 hour delivery span we know Royal Mail under walk sequencing will look at reducing the span as the second wave of work which clears a mail centre at 4 40 will have to be sequenced and will not arrive in a delivery office until after 10 and by the time you have merged your packets and flats and with a last letter of 1400 it will be less then 3.5 and is designed for a part time contract.

[dvbuk55]

Lovejoy agree with most things you mentioned but do not believe we need a new IR framework. The fact is that Royal Mail want to minimise what is subject to negotiaton this came out clearly within the joint working party. We do not need to reopen it now especially as with the new regions Royal Mail have moved back to the 1992 Royal Mail divisons.

I do not believe that Royal Mail will seriously want to give out release to local officials which is really the attraction for the union in re opening the disucssions.
Royal Mail made it clear that whilst it didt have an agenda to reduce union release costs it was not going to increase them.

With regards to 3.5 hour delivery span we know Royal Mail under walk sequencing will look at reducing the span as the second wave of work which clears a mail centre at 4 40 will have to be sequenced and will not arrive in a delivery office until after 10 and by the time you have merged your packets and flats and with a last letter of 1400 it will be less then 3.5 and is designed for a part time contract.

You see dingo it has brought out things we didn't know - like a shorter delivery span, but wouldn't that mean more part timers and what would that do to the non cooperation on savings do? Are there some negotiations going on we don't know about? Like for example those in North Lancs/Cumbria where LONGER delivery spans are being discussed. Tell me dingo do we really have a united cohesive plan or is it just off the cuff local agreements designed for no one in particular.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk remember Royal Mail have a 5 phase appoach to deliveries. The first phase is geo route , second phase is indoor workload and a longer span, third phase is automation walk sequencing which will be a shorter span and target of at least a 70 /30 split on part timers , the forth phase is team working etc and the 5th phase is delivery office clousres and the amalgamation of post codes. If it is cheaper for a delivery postperson to keep walking into a different postcode then that is what they want the same with vans.

This is not a secret and is why the Delivery Blueprint was published and all offices should have been consulted by now. Sometimes I wonder if Branch`s are actually operating as they should do. All staff should be aware that Royal Mail want to adopt the Dutch Delivery model and when automation is on stream they want to reduce delviery spans, In the mean time where walk sequencing has not been deployed they off course want to increase spans to maximise effierinces.

This is why the CWU have a policy of no savings as we need a national agreement which amognst other things deals with the future delivery model which must be centred on protecting full time jobs.

[DGP1]

What I dearly wish for is the stopping of all the bullying from managers because I really fear that something bad is going to happen and that'll be on the heads of the senior managers who are the real villains.


BTW I'd like some time off for conjugal visits

[dvbuk55]

What I dearly wish for is the stopping of all the bullying from managers because I really fear that something bad is going to happen and that'll be on the heads of the senior managers who are the real villains.


BTW I'd like some time off for conjugal visits

Is it really bullying though? These managers are also under pressure to cut costs and increase productivity and in a sense are themselves bullied, so what we have is a cascade effect where higher management aren't likely to uphold a complaint because they are at the root of the problem.

Don't be wasting your money on conjugal visits - you'll only be disappointing some poor lass.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk remember Royal Mail have a 5 phase appoach to deliveries. The first phase is geo route , second phase is indoor workload and a longer span, third phase is automation walk sequencing which will be a shorter span and target of at least a 70 /30 split on part timers , the forth phase is team working etc and the 5th phase is delivery office clousres and the amalgamation of post codes. If it is cheaper for a delivery postperson to keep walking into a different postcode then that is what they want the same with vans.

This is not a secret and is why the Delivery Blueprint was published and all offices should have been consulted by now. Sometimes I wonder if Branch`s are actually operating as they should do. All staff should be aware that Royal Mail want to adopt the Dutch Delivery model and when automation is on stream they want to reduce delviery spans, In the mean time where walk sequencing has not been deployed they off course want to increase spans to maximise effierinces.

This is why the CWU have a policy of no savings as we need a national agreement which amognst other things deals with the future delivery model which must be centred on protecting full time jobs.

Stop wondering - they aren't and a quick visit from someone who cares about the membership would soon highlight the problem.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Dvbuk remember Royal Mail have a 5 phase appoach to deliveries. The first phase is geo route , second phase is indoor workload and a longer span, third phase is automation walk sequencing which will be a shorter span and target of at least a 70 /30 split on part timers , the forth phase is team working etc and the 5th phase is delivery office clousres and the amalgamation of post codes. If it is cheaper for a delivery postperson to keep walking into a different postcode then that is what they want the same with vans.

This is not a secret and is why the Delivery Blueprint was published and all offices should have been consulted by now. Sometimes I wonder if Branch`s are actually operating as they should do. All staff should be aware that Royal Mail want to adopt the Dutch Delivery model and when automation is on stream they want to reduce delviery spans, In the mean time where walk sequencing has not been deployed they off course want to increase spans to maximise effierinces.

This is why the CWU have a policy of no savings as we need a national agreement which amognst other things deals with the future delivery model which must be centred on protecting full time jobs.

Stop wondering - they aren't and a quick visit from someone who cares about the membership would soon highlight the problem.

I think Area Reps should be required by HQ to visit every single office within the "catchment" area at least once every 6 months. Not for branch of office meetings when there is a dispute but during a normal working day so the ordinary members can air their views or just a meet and greet scenario.

I also think Divisional Reps should have a similar visit schedule but obviously over a longer period - in fact I may consider asking my branch to adopt it as a motion.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk remember Royal Mail have a 5 phase appoach to deliveries. The first phase is geo route , second phase is indoor workload and a longer span, third phase is automation walk sequencing which will be a shorter span and target of at least a 70 /30 split on part timers , the forth phase is team working etc and the 5th phase is delivery office clousres and the amalgamation of post codes. If it is cheaper for a delivery postperson to keep walking into a different postcode then that is what they want the same with vans.

This is not a secret and is why the Delivery Blueprint was published and all offices should have been consulted by now. Sometimes I wonder if Branch`s are actually operating as they should do. All staff should be aware that Royal Mail want to adopt the Dutch Delivery model and when automation is on stream they want to reduce delviery spans, In the mean time where walk sequencing has not been deployed they off course want to increase spans to maximise effierinces.

This is why the CWU have a policy of no savings as we need a national agreement which amognst other things deals with the future delivery model which must be centred on protecting full time jobs.

Stop wondering - they aren't and a quick visit from someone who cares about the membership would soon highlight the problem.

I think Area Reps should be required by HQ to visit every single office within the "catchment" area at least once every 6 months. Not for branch of office meetings when there is a dispute but during a normal working day so the ordinary members can air their views or just a meet and greet scenario.

I also think Divisional Reps should have a similar visit schedule but obviously over a longer period - in fact I may consider asking my branch to adopt it as a motion.

Sounds good to me.