IMPORTANT:Time to fight and not give in

[Martin Walsh]

The CWU`s national policy is that no savings or revisons should be agreed this mean `s all office must not agree any geo route /peagsus or indeed 2 men in a van. The reason for this is that Royal Mail `s despite the two day meeting with the union on monday and Tuesday next week do not want to change their plans for deliveries , mail centres and distrbution. Instead Crozier`s answer to the current problems is that the union should support Royal Mails plans and ensure that CWU HQs force Branch`s to agree and implement them.

The Union does not support Royal Mail`s plans as their model is based on the Dutch delivery model which results in massive increases in part times jobs and huge reductions in mail centre jobs and indeed mail centres themselves. The current Royal Mail centre strategy to have just one outward plan and to increase time on the inward is just the start.

In my divison no offices have agreed any savings and we have 6 stage 3s next week. The policy of our division is simple if managment decide to implement revisons without agreement in any office we will ballot the whole of our division 14 000 cwu members. We expect to have to activate this ballot in the next 4 weeks.

This is not about whether the deal for your office is reasonable or whether there are some VRS or an increase in Full time jobs or whether managment give your office an agreement that should there be an extension of 50 50 or any other bonus scheme should it be agreed. This is a fight on whehter we have full time jobs in the future or we have compusory transefers or redudancies. Every office which takes the easy option of doing a deal is betraying the rest of the membership who are standing firm. Every office who gives into management are making it harder for us to get a national agreement and makes it more possible that we will end up with the Dutch model (TNT ) which has 84% part timers and those who have full time contracts have only a guartnee of that until 2014. By the way part time contracts in holland are limited to 16 hours max. The model is quite defined and has been explained nationally to the cwu .

So the question is there are rummours around the country that other areas have decided to do deals on savings. Is this true and if so why ?? What is the point in being in a national union if when the Postal Executive instruct all Branch`s that no savings should be given that some choose to ingnore it.

Frankly as someone who is committed to balloting 14 000 members against Royal Mail`s plans it does not only make me frustrated but dammed angry that others areas are too weak to hold firm against Royal Mail`s threats. However I have the upmost respect for those who are holding the line and are balloting locally where managment are threatening or attempting executive action.

In order for us to have a national ballot we all must be prepared to hold the line and not give in. For if we were to ballot nationally we must get a yes vote or we will be finsihed as a union.

[POSTMAN]

Cheers dingo,stickied.

[corleonebob]

good points raised about solidarity or lack of. Although it would be good if we could get your division to sign the epetition telling the govt no! If not tnt will slash n burn worse than rm as they have shareholders.

[Martin Walsh]

Corenebob our divison members are signing the e petition but we have also produced another petition opposing the goverments plans so branch`s can get members of the public to sign and our members who do not have access to PCs.

It was our divison who moved emergency motion E6 which was to ballot the membership on the labour party should we have a partial privitisation.

[corleonebob]

dingo

got that there are many member of RM signing the e-petition although last count only 7k or so. i've sent it out to my management colleagues from private email - whole issue about toeing the party line - no way. did in at the last round of hassle with the pension fund and got slated!! at the end of the day, if it affects the CWU pensions its mine as well. getting annoyed about the whole business savings issues, i mean whats the point of having meaningful discussions etc then stick it in by way of exec action? C'mon its sounding more like the labour govt all the time!!! Next member of the board, please stand up :mfo

i had a debate at the last election when even the MP came round to secure my vote!!! emailed him last week. his reply?? FO ( in polite form!!!) anyway will watch what happens.

[pinstripe]

Fair enough points and I agree with them but, did our union not cave in on the Pay and Mod deal in 2007, putting the pressure on local and area reps to get the best deal they could with the result that the 'poorer' represented offices got s*****d. Where was the National Agreement then? This is an issue that SHOULD have been addressed before the ink was dry on the last deal, I'm sure that there is nothing there that wasn't common knowledge (at least on here) almost 2 years ago, not a single one of RM's stupid ideas have ever gone away, they keep coming back until they get in. If the CWU can't see that then we really do need a massive clear out at the top and replaced with local and area reps that have only the members interests at heart (not any future political ambitions...supposedly)

[dubdaz]

Fair enough points and I agree with them but, did our union not cave in on the Pay and Mod deal in 2007, putting the pressure on local and area reps to get the best deal they could with the result that the 'poorer' represented offices got s*****d. Where was the National Agreement then?

My thoughts exactly

[Martin Walsh]

Pinstripe I have to disagree , conference is the soveign body of the CWU and time and time again conference instructs that all national agreements should be provide a framework for local negotiations.

The reason being is no two offices are`s alike let alone different offices around the country. Yes some offices get worse deals then others but how would you ever sell a deal which meant that the strong offices which have used their strength to get the good deals should be sold out.

Any national agreement which meant you simply implment in your offices the full terms of any national deal without local negotations will be sucide for this union and would allow Royal Mail the ablility to attack the stronger officers to make them fall in line with the weaker offices.

[rowdogg]

DINGO, great article, but in my office there is no union rep, weve agreed to savings 600 hours cut, lapsing on mon/tues..... i know someone is gonna say i should become union rep but every1 in our office just accepts this way of what management say goes. no one has said anything about it....
in this scenario what can i do other than become a union rep!! and considering im only a 20hr dont think id really get the respect of the others

[pinstripe]

Dingo, while I agree with you, the point I was making was that our union sold us out, leaving us with no National Agreement on the pay and mod deal. Personally, I think a mix of National and Local agreements would be the best way to progress (how it could work I don't know).

The weaker offices which have already fallen foul of RM due to the weakness of the union should not be forgotten, we cannot and should not concentrate solely on the strong offices. They MAY have stood a better chance if the union had been stronger and demanded some form of minimum National agreement.

The sad fact is that it suited Billy and Dave (and the PEC) at the time and they must have known the implications, now they are changing their tune as it doesn't suit them anymore as they have now realised what we all knew, that the Government and RM had no intention of honouring any agreements, neither for us or any future 'perks' for them.

[rockytony67]

I feel(and it's with the benefit of hindsight) that the problem with the pay & mod agreement is that it's based on the union as it was 20 years ago, every office was it's own branch and every office no matter how small(with some exceptions) had a branch sec, branch chairman, branch treasurer and a branch committee.

Every branch followed it's own path under a national umbrella, but they all had there own way of doing things, the branches would meet locally under joint area committee's, and above that divisional area, but the one thing that was constant was that each branch had it's own autonomy.

Now this worked fine when the union was operating from a position of strength and had strong support in every office, but we now have offices that have no reps, and the members in them must feel that they have been totally abandoned by HQ.

Rowdogg hits the nail on the head, how can the union expect someone on a 20hr contract to take up the union rep's job and still carry out his/her duty? as someone who's been in the job over 25 years and someone who's been actively involved in the union for most of that time(12 years as a rep) how can we expect people to take on the reps job when they are run off there feet just getting there duty done?

[Puppetmaster]

Totally agree with every said ,my veiw on Delivery ,
1,we had Pegusus Last year and a revision,we cannot make
the rounds any bigger,regardless of IPS time,After doing some rounds now on a busy day wich is almost every day now I am to tired to do more,I KNOW i am not the only one !
Mail volumes forgetting Packets are not decreasing in my office,If any thing increasing but this includes DSA mail.
2,we do not want 2 men to a van,it wont work.
We must stop RM.

[Yahoorsur]

So the question is there are rummours around the country that other areas have decided to do deals on savings. Is this true and if so why ?? What is the point in being in a national union if when the Postal Executive instruct all Branch`s that no savings should be given that some choose to ingnore it.

Frankly as someone who is committed to balloting 14 000 members against Royal Mail`s plans it does not only make me frustrated but dammed angry that others areas are too weak to hold firm against Royal Mail`s threats. However I have the upmost respect for those who are holding the line and are balloting locally where managment are threatening or attempting executive action.

In order for us to have a national ballot we all must be prepared to hold the line and not give in. For if we were to ballot nationally we must get a yes vote or we will be finsihed as a union.


Dingo
there are v.small offices all over the UK where there is no culture or history of folk standing up for themselves,the East Neuk of Fife is notorious up here for signing agreements,...not even signed by CWU members ,I honestly cant find the heart to slag them off anymore,weak,foolish call them what you will ,maybe its a fault in our structure,or maybe its inherent in the very nature of our job,maybe it's just some folks human nature whan faced with conflict,to retreat ,whatever it is, we the unon have to find a way to stop RM,they have embarked on a strategy of picking us off unit by unit,area by area,that why we have to ballot unit by unit,have local meetings, unit by unit(maybe when we stop funding Labour we can start employing full time organisers in these areas)to put over our case.
I know one thing that this site(your to blame Postman) has led to folk in my D.O being more aware of RM tricks,we must build the case brick by brick,so that when Rm come for us,we are ready.

Rockytony67 makes a very good point, 'the union as it was 20 years ago',
we have to fight here and now ,not as things were, Scotland No 2 are making basic moves in this area,getting mobile no's,e-mail addresses,the forum, etc but and here's the killer,how bout talking face to face,someone with the skills to convince folk of the rightness of our case?,thats what wins people,not fancy gadgets,applications,etc,but talking face to face.

[BELIAL]

Any office that folds represents a failure of the union . No time for blame shifting , if an office caves in then the union has failed to get its message across ,simple

[dvbuk55]

Any office that folds represents a failure of the union . No time for blame shifting , if an office caves in then the union has failed to get its message across ,simple

If that was true how do you explain the Huddersfield incident - it's not true to say that small under represented offices are failing to uphold union standards - no indeed - the shoe is on the other foot IMO. The Pay and Modernisation agreement was a shambles and it just gets worse.

Some poster on here reckoned that because an office had strong representation they should not be held back by weaker offices who agree to what would normally be unacceptable working practices - and I say they pay the same subs and should be represented equally - shame on the man who reckons the devil takes the hindmost. It's time the CWU earned its keep and truly represented each member honestly and in good faith rather than perpetuating a flawed system of representation - would a regional system of negotiating not be beneficial to small offices? Perhaps branches have outlived their usefulness and a larger unit employing people outside of RM with a salary provided by central funds - instead of frittering away resources on self servers and jollies.