Advice needed before stage 3 interview

[flimes]

I've just been given a letter telling me I need to attend a stage 3 disciplinary interview for unsatisfactory attendance record next week and was looking for some advice.

The last sickness period was for 16 days in December and I return to work the week before Christmas and I heard nothing about any further action until two weeks ago when manager called me into the office and told me that the stage 3 had been triggered and asked If i wanted have my case looked at by ATOS (more like told me that I should).

Today I went into work as usual and found a letter on my fitting asking me to attend the stage 3 interview next week as ATOS had found no underlying causes for my absences, although the report also said that the time off was what would be expected for the reasons given for the absences.

I have forwarded the paper to area union rep but while I'm waiting for him to get back could you give any advice on where I stand and have few questions.

I was wondering whether the return to work interview is a compulsory part of the absence procedure (I didn't have one when I return to work in December) ?
Is there a time limit in which they can conduct the return to work interview or inform me of the stage 3 action being taken?

Also while i was off sick my managers turned up at my house without any warning to check up one me - Are they allowed to do this or can I somehow use this to my defence ?

Thanks for your help

[DGP1]

Why were you off sick, why were you off sick the times before? Are any of the absenses through an injury at work?

The back to work interview should take place within 24 hours of you returning but be careful, they can have a 'chat' with you and then claim that was your back to work interview.

[wolfie citizen smith]

Sorry to read about your problems, hope all goes well.
Not without knowing your history, I believe know one on this site can help.
Good Luck Good Luck

[Stormproof]

I had my RTW interview on Tuesday after an AOD the previous week and was told the RTW interview now has to be done within 3 hours of your return, don't know whether thats true or not but thats what the LM said. So if your RTW interview has'nt been done I'm sure this will be in your favour. Good Luck

[DGP1]

Sorry to read about your problems, hope all goes well.
Not without knowing your history, I believe know one on this site can help.
Good Luck Good Luck

Not true, several people on this site have been through stage 3, k66yla has just survived one so a PM conversation might help and that way it doesn't end up on the open forum.

[DGP1]

Oops k66yla has already posted

[flimes]

Why were you off sick, why were you off sick the times before? Are any of the absences through an injury at work?

The back to work interview should take place within 24 hours of you returning but be careful, they can have a 'chat' with you and then claim that was your back to work interview.

No none of times of were for injuries at work. This time i was off because of stomach bug which caused vomiting and the runs and I had to go on antibiotics. The other times were for various sicknesses.

as for the back to work interview the only times i spoke to the managers was to say hi in the morning when i went in.

[DGP1]

Why were you off sick, why were you off sick the times before? Are any of the absences through an injury at work?

The back to work interview should take place within 24 hours of you returning but be careful, they can have a 'chat' with you and then claim that was your back to work interview.

No none of times of were for injuries at work. This time i was off because of stomach bug which caused vomiting and the runs and I had to go on antibiotics. The other times were for various sicknesses.

as for the back to work interview the only times i spoke to the managers was to say hi in the morning when i went in.

I'm sorry that I can't be of more help but I would give all your details to your rep. and let them advise you.

[norbert]

I think the ATOS report is based on standard questions from RM , i.e . " should I sack him or her ? " basically , you are not being accused of skivving .

At one time , a manager would only come round if say you'd been off a very long time and hadn't contacted RM for a long time , but as we all know on here , there's a lot of pressure from very aggressive Senior and Middle Managers downwards and some managers and ATOS will not pass up a opportunity to impress .
the problem is that RM would try and make the home visit "look straight" by calling it a welfare visit ( which is rubbish but ! ) and say it's all agreed with the Union , RM certainly don't go along with the spirit of the RMAP agreement , the problem is proving that's it's possible harassment .

For a RTU have a RTU trained rep in , Area if possible who may be able to trip RM up on something , but RM can be very bloody - minded & obstinate , these days . Hope that helps , not a nice experience .

it's absolutely correct that the rep has to have the details , as RM won't hesitate to try and trip the rep up , especially if RM are in a corner having cocked something up

[Stormproof]

Sorry to read about your problems, hope all goes well.
Not without knowing your history, I believe know one on this site can help.
Good Luck Good Luck

Not true, several people on this site have been through stage 3, k66yla has just survived one so a PM conversation might help and that way it doesn't end up on the open forum.

I've survived 3 in 18 months disgruntled obviously common sense prevailed or maybe the threat of a tribunal

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I posted this in a similar thread before - hope it helps.

Depends on what it was for:

1. Is there a pattern for the absences - ie always Tue and Wed for 6 days or Friday, Saturday and Monday for 2 days. Basically get a week off or a long weekend for free.

2. Are the absences all for the same reason. Cold Flu etc, all in a pattern (for example every 4 months).

Either of the above - TBH survival is not good.

However, if they are pretty random and for different reasons I would say it would depend on your previous record and of course what side of the bed the manager got out off that morning.

The meeting is called an RTU (Reasons to Urge) and its not RM who need to do the urging its you to be honest.
If during the meeting they offer an ATOS review - take it - it shows you are willing to address the underlying causes if there are any, even if you don't think they are either suggest or take it if offered.

Go into the meeting prepared by.

1. Having a list of your absences and the cause.
2. Having a list of the stages and when they were issued.
3. Copies of the stage warning themselves can help as well.
3a. Also useful if you have a diary that shows your absences and how long you had to wait before the RTW interview happened.
4. Copies of any medical notes you have relating to any underlying condition.
5. Notes about any Accident on Duty that has or even has not caused you to absent. Especially useful if they have not followed procedure and have not discounted the absence.

6. However, the most important thing is to request that (if you are a member of the CWU) you ask for the local rep to attend as witness and advocate. Make sure as well that they give you release to attend the meeting, and where possible also to meet uo with the rep before hand so that he is fully aware of the details of your case.

My manager said once to me that as long as the postie is aware that the meeting is for them to explain why RM should keep them and goes in with that attitude, but not begging, then in most cases a first 3rd stage warning is usually survivable

[wolfie citizen smith]

Flimes

Unsatisfactory Attendance could mean for anything, time off with cold/flu, doggy belly etc etc etc, However if Atos found no underlying causes for your absences then management will thrive on that.
Regarding your letter of stage 3 being left in your frame, i find this unprofessional unsatisfactory behaviour by your unit manager, who seems to hold you in the lowest possible regard.
RTW interviews are compulsory and you rep should highlight this during your interview for stage 3, however I believe there is no time limit now regarding when the RTW interview is done, they just feel that the interview is done in a reasonable time scale, if you know what I mean.
Finally "yes" a Manager can and should come and visit you at home, it shows that your employer has compassion, however because of my 2nd paragragh I believe this was a case of your manager not believing your reason for absence.

disgruntledpostie1

Not knowing our colleagues full medical history to why they have reached a stage3, how are we able to give the correct advise, apart from the brief given by TBT which I hope Flimes found informative?

[NumptyBumpty]

Atos seem to get a lot of stick on here but they're only there to respond to RM's questions. At stage 3 the main thing RM want to establish is whether any absences are disability related or related to AODs etc. If they don't believe they are related then you've just got to rely on your evidence at interview. Atos are there to cover RM's back in cases of discrimination etc.

With regards to RTW, I don't think it would matter if you didn't have one for your latest absence. However, if you had a further absence which might have been averted had you had an RTW, then things would get interesting. I wouldn't play the RTW card if it isn't an issue or hasn't hindered your recovery, concentrate on other areas better not to get the manager's back up. You can always save that for appeal.