Dogs Royal Mail and the law

[templek]

Ive just started work with Royal Mail as a casual and would like to know the position is regarding dogs. Ive had several close scrapes, and realised how dangerous things can be after hearing what happened to the postman in Cambridge.

Do does the RM and the law view dog attacks as an 'occupational hazard'? If bitten, you could rightly claim you had a reason to be on the premises and not trespassing with intent. Does the RM stop delivering to addresses where attacks have taken place and tell the owners to collect instead? What action could be taken against the owner?

Also what is the best defence against a dog attack? Is it best not to run cos they are faster?Are dog whistles any good? What about squirting a water pistol filled with black pepper or chilli powder? Someone suggested that could work. Where could you get dog sprays

Im surprised to have found no information at all on dog attacks since starting work at RM so would be grateful for any info

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Welcome templek - you have come to the right place


No it is not considered a hazard of the Job - You are within your rights if you feel it is unsafe to enter a property because of a loose Dog, or a dog you do not know is about or not under control.

If you do happen upon a loose dog at a property do not enter it - instead endorse the mail as Dog Loose and continue with the rest of your duty. The next day you must report it to your Manager who will take action such as writing a letter to the owner, making entries in the walk log etc.

The dog trust website is a good resource for dog laws of which some are highlighted below.

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/information ... resentlaw/

Control
• Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (outside London) and Metropolitan Police Act 1839 (London)

These Acts make it an offence to allow an unmuzzled, ferocious dog to be left at large, or for a person to set on or to urge any dog attack, worry or put in fear any person or animal in the street.
• Dogs Act 1871

Under this Act, a court may, upon complaint that a dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control, order the owner to keep him under proper control or to be destroyed.
• Animals Act 1971

Under this Act a dog may be shot, without warning, by a farmer for worrying his livestock and the owner could face criminal prosecution for the same offence under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953.
• Road Traffic Act 1988

This makes it an offence to have a dog on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead.
• Guard Dogs Act 1975

It is an offence to use or permit the use of a guard dog on any premises unless the handler, who is capable of controlling him, is present on the premises and the dog is under control. The dog must be secured so that he is not at liberty to go about the premises. A warning that a guard dog is present must be clearly exhibited at each entrance to the premises.
• Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA) 1991

There are two main sections to this Act. Section 1 applies to four specific breeds of dog including ‘the type of dog known as the pit bull terrier’. Owners of these breeds had to comply with certain legal requirements, including having their dog registered, neutered, microchipped and tattooed. One of the main problems with this law is that the pit bull terrier is not a recognised breed in the UK. As a result, many owners of cross breeds which resemble a pit bull terrier ‘type’ have been charged under the Act.

Section 3 applies to all dogs, making it a criminal offence to allow a dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place. This includes instances where there is fear that an injury might occur.
Owners found guilty under either section of the Act could have their dog destroyed, face the possibility of six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding level 5 (at present up to £5,000).

[TrueBlueTerrier]

and from the Unions "Lighten the Load" booklet http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... e_Load.pdf

Avoiding Dog Attacks
Never attempt a delivery if menaced or intimidated by a dog or where a dog is loose. Never
accept an owner’s assurance that a dog is safe or friendly. Never put your fingers through
a letterbox. Report all incidents and hostile, hazardous dogs to management in order for it
to be dealt with under the Royal Mail Dog Attacks Procedure and reported to the Local
Authority Dog Warden and Police in cases of injury.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Here is an extract from a HSE Inspectors Guide dealing with dogs http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/s ... _99_51.pdf

THE GUIDE

4 The first step requires the completion of a risk assessment using dog attack incident
sheets, walk logs and local knowledge. A risk assessment form is included within the guide.
This assessment should identify high risk areas thereby enabling managers to produce an
action plan. Next staff should be trained in the standard safe system of work detailed in the
guide which includes how to identify a potential dog attack and what action to take. Further
information is also contained in the Royal Mail video entitled "Why Risk It".

5 Under the guide, dog deterrent devices are only provided where a need is identified by
the risk assessment.

6 All reported attacks or incidents of menacing are to be entered on a local hazard card,
walk book and dog attack incident sheet. This information is kept available for staff working
the round.

7 When it has not been possible to deliver to an address as a result of a dog this is reported
to a line manager. The mail is marked with an "unable to deliver" sticker. Depending on the
circumstances a second attempt may be made to deliver. If this is unsuccessful the
manager will write or telephone the customer to explain the situation. Failure to resolve the
problem will lead to a second attempt to inform the customer that mail will not be delivered
to their address.

8 Where there is a local dog warden local management are to seek a partnership
arrangement. A visit by the dog warden to the owners of the dog has been found to be
more effective than a letter from a local manager. However some local authorities may not
wish to enter into such a voluntary partnership arrangement.

9 In all cases of injury staff are encouraged to report the incident to the police. This requires
staff to give a statement and possibly be called as a witness should the police initiate
proceedings. Managers are to give full support to their staff in such circumstances. If the
police decline to take action the Royal Mail will consider taking its own legal action using
the Dogs Act 1871 or The Dangerous Dog Act 1991. When an attack results in more than 7
days absence from work there is a Compensation Scheme available to employees.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Here is another good page on laws dealing with Dogs: http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare ... c/dogs.htm

Only section 1 of the Guard Dogs Act 1975 has ever entered into force. This means that all the other sections relating to a licensing scheme are not in force and neither are there any plans to do so. Section 1, which is in force, relates to the control of guard dogs.

Section 1 states:

(1) A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a person ('the handler') who is capable of controlling the dog is present on the premises and the dog is under the control of the handler at all times while it is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

(2) The handler of a guard dog shall keep the dog under his control at all times while it is being used as a guard dog at any premises except:
(a) while another handler has control over the dog; or
(b) while the dog is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

thier own leaflet says: http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare ... leaflet.pd

In addition, if your dog is dangerously out
of control in its own home or garden then
the police or anyone else that is worried
about the dog being a risk could also seek a
control order.

(3) A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a notice containing a warning that a guard dog is present is clearly exhibited at each entrance to the premises.


The owner of a guard dog may be liable for any injury to a person under s 2(2) of the Animals Act 1971, unless they come within one of the exceptions in s 5.

[DGP1]

Since starting work for Rm I am now a fully trained athlete who would give Usain Bolt a run for his money over 60 yards if they allowed a dog to be let loose behind me

Like the old saying, I don't have to outrun the dog, I only have to outrun YOU

[templek]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Just a couple of points.
What is the best thing to do or protect yourself from an aggressive dog? is running always the best thing to do? What about throwing a stone at it? A mate who has rotties, said best to stand still and shout 'stop' or 'stay' in a firm manner, but never run.

In argos they sell high pitched anti barking dog control sirens. Which humans can not hear. Are they any good?

[stokes11eg]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Just a couple of points.
What is the best thing to do or protect yourself from an aggressive dog? is running always the best thing to do? What about throwing a stone at it? A mate who has rotties, said best to stand still and shout 'stop' or 'stay' in a firm manner, but never run.

In argos they sell high pitched anti barking dog control sirens. Which humans can not hear. Are they any good?

See if your office has the bite back spray.I have used it.I do not face the dog directly, I find if you spray it downwards a few feet from the dog, they back off.It is made from natural substances, and I have tried it on myself----
it is unpleasant, but will do no lasting harm to the dog, it does work, even on those dogs that stalk you on your walk!!!!
I did not find the sirens any good for direct confrontation with a dog, but good if you were walking past a fence, and you have those awful yappie dogs,

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I have had to use one of those high pitched buzzers and it worked a treat. If you ever watched "Dog whisperer" on TV he explains it well when dealing with problem pets. What happens apparently is that when the dog sees a Postie they get all excited because you are part of their routine, and they then bark and jump at you, or act aggressively , he calls this going from relaxed (level 1) to excited (level 10).

If you activate the siren for only a short period approx 1 second at most, the noise gives the dog something to else think about other than you and this, apparently makes their level of excitement drop. Well that's the theory and in practice it worked. In my case the dog stopped dead, he stopped barking and he backed off quite quickly. The expression on the owners face was a picture, they could not work out what happened.

If you don't have any deterrent and a dog acts aggressively.

DONT:

Run
Act aggressively
Attack the dog (dogs when excited don't feel pain, in fact some breeds get more excited)

DO:

Place your bag between you and the dog.
Do attract the owners attention.
Tell your manager as soon as possible.
Report any loose dog on Public property to the Dog Warden/Local Council.

[stokes11eg]

I have had to use one of those high pitched buzzers and it worked a treat. If you ever watched "Dog whisperer" on TV he explains it well when dealing with problem pets. What happens apparently is that when the dog sees a Postie they get all excited because you are part of their routine, and they then bark and jump at you, or act aggressively , he calls this going from relaxed (level 1) to excited (level 10).

If you activate the siren for only a short period approx 1 second at most, the noise gives the dog something to else think about other than you and this, apparently makes their level of excitement drop. Well that's the theory and in practice it worked. In my case the dog stopped dead, he stopped barking and he backed off quite quickly. The expression on the owners face was a picture, they could not work out what happened.

If you don't have any deterrent and a dog acts aggressively.

DONT:

Run
Act aggressively
Attack the dog (dogs when excited don't feel pain, in fact some breeds get more excited)

DO:

Place your bag between you and the dog.
Do attract the owners attention.
Tell your manager as soon as possible.
Report any loose dog on Public property to the Dog Warden/Local Council.

In our area, dog wardens will only respond if dogs are near a childs playground---Sometimes, I have been trapped in blocks of flats(When drug dealers are dishing out , theie 'clients'bring their dogs along, and station them on the stairs)
it is a waste of time phoning police etc. This is where the bite back really proves it worth!!!!!

[twoloops]

Put as much distance between you & the dog allowing you to aim a well placed kick, If the dog goes down big or small dog, stamp on it's back or neck.

[leolion855]

Put as much distance between you & the dog allowing you to aim a well placed kick, If the dog goes down big or small dog, stamp on it's back or neck.

And youll be done for animal cruelty. As someone who has been butten within the last few weeks that is too far, you just need to shout the command lie down or stop 99% of the time, i was unfortunate the owner opened the front door without giving me enough space to deal with the situation. needless to say the mails been stopped now.

[work]

Put as much distance between you & the dog allowing you to aim a well placed kick, If the dog goes down big or small dog, stamp on it's back or neck.

And youll be done for animal cruelty. As someone who has been butten within the last few weeks that is too far...

or not far enough, as a two footed jumping stamping to the /nose/ eyes/ soft sensitive bits usually stops all mammals (lions included) from their immediate attack...it's called self defence with extreme prejudice...the best form of defence ...is a determined ATTACK with force. These animals have attacked you, so fair game; if it's a fight they want then let the full fury and anger commence. You are not cruel: you are justified. For the record if you force the front legs apart laterally you may even kill it internally by applying internal pressure on it's heart; forced against it's ribcage. just saying.

[Sir Henry]

Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act an owner, or a person in charge of a dog, commits an offence if the dog causes reasonable apprehension to a person that they will be injured, whether or not they actually are injured. Unlike most offences in English law no criminal intent or recklessness is required for liability to arise and a person can therefore be guilty of an offence even if their dog was on a lead and had never behaved in such a way before. Where no injury is caused the case may only be dealt with in the magistrates’ court and the maximum penalty is 6 months imprisonment and/or a fine of £5,000. The court has the power to order the dog be destroyed or kept under control and they may specify the measures for control (eg keeping the dog on a lead in public). The court can also disqualify you from keeping dogs and can also order compensation to be paid to the victim.

Colleague had some old guy walking a mastiff type dog on one of those extendable leads, saw the dogs body language change and immediately got their trolley between themselves and the dog before it started barking and growling and ran at him. Guy apologised and said the dog hadn't done this before but colleague had witnessed its aggressive territorial behaviour previously. Sadly it couldn't be pinpointed as to which address the dog lived at otherwise the owner would be picking up their post for the foreseeable and the dog mightn't get another chance to go for anyone else.

[Cluaran]

I was issued with a dog "Dazzer" in the early 90's. Do RM still have them?