Counting letters

edo4442 · Post by **edo4442** » 13 Dec 2008, 16:44

Hi, looking for some advice on how to defend myself.

My manager took it upon them self to count the letters I had sorted over a 2 hour period, without any prior warning. I asked for the results, however the said person refused and gave me them the day after the count. My manager calculated this at 12 letters a minute, and informs me that they will be discussing this further next week with me and my union rep, as they feel its not that I cant achieve the require standard, its that I wont, as they have already gave me a 1 minute prep test and I passed this. A can do attitude, but wont do attitude to sum up.

I feel this may be the beginning of the end. I think my manager is going for the wont do attitude to avoid having to go down the retraining route, and perhaps go straight to gross misconduct perhaps ?

I also feel that my manager continually nit picks at me, for no good reason. I feel that I am a good postman, who never normally books O/T, and gets the job done properly.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Dec 2008, 17:09

edo4442 wrote:Hi, looking for some advice on how to defend myself.

My manager took it upon himself to count the letters I had sorted over a 2 hour period, without any prior warning. I asked for the results, however he refused and gave me them the day after the count. My manager calculated this at 12 letters a minute, and informs me that he will be discussing this further next week with me and my union rep, as he feels its not that I cant achieve the require standard, its that I wont, as he has already gave me a 1 minute prep test and I passed this. A can do attitude, but wont do attitude to sum up.

I feel this may be the beginning of the end. I think he is going for the wont do attitude to avoid having to go down the retraining route, and perhaps go straight to gross misconduct perhaps ?

I also feel that he continually nit picks at me, for no good reason. I feel that I am a good postman, who never normally books O/T, and gets the job done properly.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Well why is he picking on you as you do everything he wants?. Is someone telling Lie's or could it be he can see a way to get more and more out of you!. Let's take the test as far as i am aware that time's and condition's have to be adhered to and a union rep should be present!. If you are not up to the standard you should be given more training!. As to how long these test's are now i have no idea but it depends upon the size and how many boxes. But for a test of two hour's and he had all the time in the world to count them raises some serious question's about the spare time he has on his hand's!.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Dec 2008, 17:12

I in all my time have never known a test longer than twenty minutes.

edo4442 · Post by **edo4442** » 13 Dec 2008, 17:20

Thanks for the reply guys

, to clarify this was a prep test for sorting letters into a RM2000 delivery frame in DO. And as I understand, the agreed test to check someone's performance for this is a one minute prep test, where you start with an empty frame. Not over 2 hours, as the frame becomes more and more full with mail, then having to gather more from the ips etc. So eventually it does have an impact on your sort rate, especially at this time of year.

But I have a feeling, the manager can do what they want ...

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Dec 2008, 17:35

edo4442 wrote:Thanks for the reply guys , to clarify this was a prep test for sorting letters into a RM2000 delivery frame in DO. And as I understand, the agreed test to check someone's performance for this is a one minute prep test, where you start with an empty frame. Not over 2 hours, as the frame becomes more and more full with mail, then having to gather more from the ips etc. So eventually it does have an impact on your sort rate, especially at this time of year.

But I have a feeling, the manager can do what they want ...

Only if you let them!. Go see your rep or get a phone number for the area union rep!. Good luck and all the best.

Spedley · Post by **Spedley** » 13 Dec 2008, 19:08

12 letters per minute for 2 hours is 1440 letters. That is a lot of counting ... unless he counted 1 row and multiplied it by 4 but then that could be way out. Also, the standard of 24 letters per minute (I believe) is into an empty frame without any stopping (i.e. to pickup another bundle and remove the band, collect more bundles for your walk) and certainly doesn't include the 5 minutes break allocated per hours work.

All in all, I think a 'raw' 12 letters per minute isn't too bad especially if most of those letters are Christmas cards which are harder to read and more awkward to hold and therefore slower to prep.

If you did sort 1440 letters and you had your 10 minutes break in that two hours and you spent 1 minute collecting and handling each bundle (and at least 5% missorts I've had in the christmas post) then that is more like 16 letters per minute or rather 20 letters per minute to start and 12 per minute at the end. That is close to the standard which you can achieve under test conditions but obvisouly work conditions are different to a concentrated 1 minute test period.

If that 1440 includes any large flats then I'd also argue his figures are completely nonsense and as such there was some other motive rather than to assertain my ability to prep mail and that I would like any accusations to be put into writing and dealt with directly rather than being snooped upon. It's enough to put anyone on the sick with stress!

dave7634 · Post by **dave7634** » 13 Dec 2008, 19:32

edo4442 wrote:Thanks for the reply guys , to clarify this was a prep test for sorting letters into a RM2000 delivery frame in DO. And as I understand, the agreed test to check someone's performance for this is a one minute prep test, where you start with an empty frame. Not over 2 hours, as the frame becomes more and more full with mail, then having to gather more from the ips etc. So eventually it does have an impact on your sort rate, especially at this time of year.

But I have a feeling, the manager can do what they want ...

The only agreed letter test rate is 25 in a minute NOT per minute. The RM2000 is around 11 in a minute. This however is NOT agreed.

islfor · Post by **islfor** » 13 Dec 2008, 19:49

Fill in a grievance against the manager with big bold words such as BULLYING & HARRASSMENT amongst many others that can be used & watch them squirm away in panic.
A prep test should be done with your knowledge before so that you can have bundles of mail to work from.
It should be done for only 1 MINUTE and if you pass the 25 items per minute standard RM test, they should leave you alone for the next 6 months.........However, if you fall short they must HELP and not victimise you in any way, your frame might need new + clearer labels ETC.

robd · Post by **robd** » 14 Dec 2008, 00:20

Why did the manager have to check your prep rate anyway?
the reason i ask,in our office last week,6 or 7 people left in,and were
all subsequently challenged by the manger,remarkably he'd managed to
count all the letters and every postman had only managed 11 letters
per minute.
and as you point out the stance he's taken is not that you can't do it,
but you don't want to do it,in other words premeditated cut-offs.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 14 Dec 2008, 07:32

robd wrote:Why did the manager have to check your prep rate anyway?
the reason i ask,in our office last week,6 or 7 people left in,and were
all subsequently challenged by the manger,remarkably he'd managed to
count all the letters and every postman had only managed 11 letters
per minute.
and as you point out the stance he's taken is not that you can't do it,
but you don't want to do it,in other words premeditated cut-offs.

I would call it premeditated harassment on the manager's part.

Picket · Post by **Picket** » 14 Dec 2008, 10:25

There are no agreed testing rates outside of the one minute IPS frame test and to be fair i'm not sure thats fully endorsed. If this happened in my office i would flag it up to my area rep and register a dissagreement. Tests like this can hold no water and like previous replies sound very much like intimidation, so from a personal level i would also issue a greivance.

As for 12 a minute thats sounds pretty good and is the standard that our branch suggests.

Hold fast in there!

your_postie · Post by **your_postie** » 14 Dec 2008, 10:56

Spedley wrote: and certainly doesn't include the 5 minutes break allocated per hours work.

what is this?

have i missed something or is this just M/R?

islfor · Post by **islfor** » 14 Dec 2008, 12:29

Why dont you put a grievance in regarding the Pegasus/Geo-Route 4mph walk speed ?
Get them to explain how it works....I bet they wont know anything about it to be honest. Get your rep to use RM I.R. Framework over the 4MPH........this would seriously kick up so much dirt for them now after the media publicity on the matter.

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 14 Dec 2008, 13:16

The prep speed we have been given is 16.8 per minute but in Big Dazs' office it only 11 per minute, so maybe the union should be looking to have a national standard that we can at least know what we're supposed to do.

Spedley · Post by **Spedley** » 14 Dec 2008, 16:01

your_postie wrote:
Spedley wrote: and certainly doesn't include the 5 minutes break allocated per hours work.
what is this?
have i missed something or is this just M/R?

A 6 hour shift has 30 minutes break and an 8 hour shift has 40 minutes. In my book that is 5 minutes allocated per hours work and as far as I know you don't have to take it any paricular time or in a single block.

When I book excess I always book 9% break allocation and the extra 11% for the pension contribution, so for every 10 minutes excess I book 12 minutes pay. If the managers don't agree then the excess doesn't get done.