30 Minutes

[BettySwollocks]

I hope someone can help me here,
last tuesday, which is a "short" day in our office (7 hours), we were struggling to to IPS sort the mail that came in due to a shortage of staff,
the manager, said she was adding 30 minutes to our day, and said she could do so under exceptional circumstances,
this 30 minutes would then have to be taken off another day in the week,
she was approached by several members of staff over this (including myself) who argued against it, saying that 24 hours notice was required, and there wasn't any exceptional circumstance, it was just busy and we were short staffed (as always),
but our office is full of spineless sheep, and our rep' is no use, so it was accepted.

now .... when she was approached later in the week, thursday, and asked which day she was taking the 30 minutes off, to compensate for tuesday, she denied invoking that rule and we were to work as normal,
the rep' denied hearing her say she was invoking the 30 minute rule, so basically we didn't have a leg to stand on, personnaly i think he is just scared of her and unwilling to take her to task over it.

is there someone here who can clarify the rules regarding this extra 30 minutes ?

thanks in advance.

[rhino49]

Managers are allowed a variance of 30 minutes on a working day but this must be in anticipation of or if advised of an exceptional workload. It must be notified 24 hours in advance - NOT ON THE DAY !!! - and must be compensated for within the same working week under the terms of flexible working by the reduction of a longer day by the same amount. Normal rules of extended delivery apply - if you work it - you get paid. The manager concerned should notify the rep before the staff as part of the agreement is that such decisions are notifiable for the record. If no joy with this problem contact your area rep and next time refuse to accept a variance unless properly notified.

P.S. It works the other way too - they can reduce a day in advance and add it to a day later that week, but again it must be notified in advance and if the shortened day backfires they must accept the problems of either extended delivery or staff working to the agreed hours - personally, I think any manager who tries this one on with an unhappy office is playing with fire and the problem of recording who was affected due to days off etc would have to be done by someone competent - i.e. not a manager.

Also - if your manager denied invoking that rule then I take it she will be agreeable to all who worked the extra being paid extended delivery for the extra half hour.

[shelanda]

Also personal circumstances should always be taken into consideration.

[rhino49]

Also personal circumstances should always be taken into consideration.

Absolutely - we may well make arrangements further in advance than Royal Mail and family friendly hours don't change - they own us for 40 hours (or less) a week and can't expect us to build safety margins for their logistical and planning shortcomings into our private lives, let alone the deliberate under staffing of many units.

[Broxi51]

In our office the interpretation of the 30 minute flexibility arrangement is that the manager can ask us to work 30 minutes due to unforseen problems. We can say no or we can negotiate. By negotiating we can choose when we want the 30 minutes back which would usually be the Saturday. The manager then must make up his mind whether to go ahead with it or not. No one has done 30 minutes extra yet

[wolfie citizen smith]

Don't Know how long you have been working for the firm buddy, but I remember the day's of 500 letters in 20 minutes and if your unit is not doing this and just swans about expecting anyone else to do all the work, well what do you expect. However if the sorting is being done as expected then unfortunately if the volumes are over and above then felixibility comes into play. So to recap whats the problem?

[Big Daz]

24 hours notice?

Wasnt aware of that being in the national aggrement/ It was part of what RM wanted but wasnt in the final aggrement as far as I know?

The 30 mins is unforseen circumstances occuring on the day and is optional its not for forseen circumstances.

[bogstandard]

24 hours notice?

Wasnt aware of that being in the national aggrement/ It was part of what RM wanted but wasnt in the final aggrement as far as I know?

The 30 mins is unforseen circumstances occuring on the day and is optional its not for forseen circumstances.

i'm in agreement with you daz. Both parties have to agree, as was posted previously you could have made a commitment (e.g. DR's appt) weeks ago based on finishing at a certain time. 30 minutes later is no good, "individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken into account"

[andy2007]

24 hours notice?

Wasnt aware of that being in the national aggrement/ It was part of what RM wanted but wasnt in the final aggrement as far as I know?

The 30 mins is unforseen circumstances occuring on the day and is optional its not for forseen circumstances.

i'm in agreement with you daz. Both parties have to agree, as was posted previously you could have made a commitment (e.g. DR's appt) weeks ago based on finishing at a certain time. 30 minutes later is no good, "individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken into account"

Last week, we had some problems, and failed to process enough Mail (at our RDC). The following day, we heard that a senior Manager had, had a go at our manager, for not making us stay an extra 30 mins. We fell about laughing, when we heard this! If he was to actually try that, we'd just show him the following paragraph from the Pay and Modernisation Agreement:
Variation of hours – Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are
unexpectedly high or resourcing issues arise, individuals may be asked and
may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a
swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken
into account and total weekly contractual hours would not change.

Obviously, if they ask for volunteers. It will be a different matter. So long as I don't need to be Home promptly for something, I'm quite prepared to do the 30 mins, and get it back later. But if they try to impose it. I'll firmly, but politely, point out that they can't do that. And refuse to do it, even if it was convenient for me to do it.

[woofwoof]

Managers are allowed a variance of 30 minutes on a working day but this must be in anticipation of or if advised of an exceptional workload. It must be notified 24 hours in advance - NOT ON THE DAY !!! - and must be compensated for within the same working week under the terms of flexible working by the reduction of a longer day by the same amount. Normal rules of extended delivery apply - if you work it - you get paid. The manager concerned should notify the rep before the staff as part of the agreement is that such decisions are notifiable for the record. If no joy with this problem contact your area rep and next time refuse to accept a variance unless properly notified.

P.S. It works the other way too - they can reduce a day in advance and add it to a day later that week, but again it must be notified in advance and if the shortened day backfires they must accept the problems of either extended delivery or staff working to the agreed hours - personally, I think any manager who tries this one on with an unhappy office is playing with fire and the problem of recording who was affected due to days off etc would have to be done by someone competent - i.e. not a manager.

Also - if your manager denied invoking that rule then I take it she will be agreeable to all who worked the extra being paid extended delivery for the extra half hour.

our reps says this is wrong

Managers are allowed a variance of 30 minutes on a working day but this must be in anticipation of or if advised of an exceptional workload. It must be notified 24 hours in advance - NOT ON THE DAY !!! -

this is a no to its You* may request a shortened day and pay back the time

It works the other way too - they can reduce a day in advance and add it to a day later that week, but again it must be notified in advance and if the shortened day backfires they must accept the problems of either extended delivery or staff working to the agreed hours

[Big Daz]

woof woof

There is nothing in the national aggrement that says 24 hours, get your reps to read the national aggrement properley!

However if your patch has a area/local agrement that says 24 hours then fair enough and well done.

But the 30 mins is also for OMV breakdown so if a van was to conk out enrout to delivery office from mail centre and thus delaying the mail, managers are within their rights to ask but not insist that you vary your hours by 30 mins and make up later in the week. OMV breakdowns cant be predicted without a crystal ball!

[POSTMAN]

Daz is right,well of course he is,it's not 24hrs and it's voluntary.

[Big Daz]

Noy been used yet in my office

In fact the only flexibilty we have done is longs and shorts

Phase 3 waits untill pegasus settles down.

[rhino49]

Sorry if I have misunderstood what we were told at our office or misled anyone - I was going back to a discussion where our manager had suggested variances and was told no. Another sad instance of different strokes for different folks.

[Big Daz]

Like the prep test where your area has to achive 16 a minute and mine only 11 a minute