new start times again

dunposting · Post by **dunposting** » 30 Oct 2008, 20:22

We start a 6.15am, now been told we WILL GET 6.30 or 6.45 start. So the question is what rights do we have over them messing us about yet again. We have had over 6 ballots over the past 3 months over start times and every single ballot has been for a 6.15 start. Does this class as harasment?

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 30 Oct 2008, 20:36

National aggrement says start times will normally be from 0600 to 0630
Why was the word normally used and what is the spirit of the aggrement with regards to this word?

Why not a simple will be 0600 to 0630 start for delivery duties?

pinstripe · Post by **pinstripe** » 30 Oct 2008, 21:20

We've been told we are moving from 0545 starts to 0630 Monday to Saturday, 1430 finish across the board, no one is happy especially as Saturday attendance means we kept the early finish of 1145. So much for RM sticking to THEIR agreement.
:lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo and just for good measure :mfo

Post by **darth** » 30 Oct 2008, 22:59

will royal mail inform people that their mail will be later? i doubt it.we have had this happen in our office a few times now all it seems to do is encourage people to come in earlier.

Sandyman · Post by **Sandyman** » 30 Oct 2008, 23:58

pinstripe wrote:We've been told we are moving from 0545 starts to 0630 Monday to Saturday, 1430 finish across the board, no one is happy especially as Saturday attendance means we kept the early finish of 1145. So much for RM sticking to THEIR agreement.
:lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo and just for good measure :mfo

The SDD agreement states very clearly that Saturday attendances on delivery MUST finish SIGNIFICANTLY EARLIER that Mon-Fri attendances. Your DUM can read the text do one.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 31 Oct 2008, 16:01

tolkien wrote:any chance of a link to the earlier finish on sat SDD ,we have been told it is a 6.15 start 8 hour day every day including sat from the end of nov

The SDD agreement is in downloads http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 36&t=11546

But for ease please find the 2 section quoted that deal with Saturdays.

1. e) Saturday attendances will be significantly shorter than weekday attendances. To assist this Mailsort 3 need not be scheduled for delivery and missort runs should be rescheduled to enable an earlier start on town residential delivery routes.

3.Local issues

a)In addition to any local initiatives, offices may consider the following options to assist in reducing Saturday attendances/finishing times:

scheduling ASAP on Friday (or Friday/Saturday night)

allowing employees to take part of their break at the end of their work on Saturday

starting earlier on Saturday

identifying those customers not due for a delivery on Saturday and planning jobs accordingly

b)The new delivery specification will provide delivery offices with the opportunity to tailor and agree start times to meet employee and customer requirements. Delivery employees can commence their delivery when all due mail has connected.

c)The revision may be undertaken using the 12-step process as detailed in the 1998 agreement on delivery issues (IDA). The revision will be based on a simple tabletop approach, utilising local knowledge and expertise. The DOM and CWU representative will seek input from employees in verifying information and consulting on revision options.

d)A small number of units will need to provide tailored solutions for specific deliveries to meet unique operational requirements. This approach only applies to the handful of units with residential deliveries that have exceptionally high volumes of mail per delivery point. Existing firms’ routes should be continued, with delivery times based on local circumstances, most probably unchanged from the current.

e)All Delivery units will have a local office workplan which will include a service level agreement with the Mail centre outlining mailflow/arrival and Contingency arrangements (e.g. adverse weather, abnormal and unexpected traffic, late arrivals). Such arrangements will be implemented in consultation with the CWU and will be aimed at limiting any adverse impact on customers.

f)SPDO/Rural deliveries should aim for minimum disruption, although it is recognised that they may need to develop creative solutions to enable then to receive their 5 day week Where solutions cannot be found by the local manager and local CWU rep then the issue will be referred to the Delivery Sector Manager and the CWU Area Representative for further consideration. In order to facilitate this process, SPDOs will have an option to remain with their existing bonus unit or become stand alone. Where they choose to be stand alone the incentives contained within this agreement will be retained on a unit-by-unit basis. SPDOs that are unmeasured have no savings target.

g)The introduction of single deliveries at local level will not be specifically designed to remove early shift payments. If local employees agree to a proposition for a later start time then early shift payments will attract pay protection in accordance with MTSF.

h)Five day working may include the options of a rotating day off with a long weekend (Saturday - Monday) every 6 weeks, or one week off in six. The five-day week should be implemented within the level of cost implied by the office target savings requirement. All SPDOs have been provided with the funding to implement 5 day weeks.

Post by **Geezer** » 31 Oct 2008, 16:05

They have done this in my office, we used to start at 0445 got moved to 0515, then 0545 now 0630.They are now trying to push us to 0700.
We have been to stage 3 disagreement and are now being told it will be implemented under executive action. This so called national agreement
means nothing more to them than a charter to be ignored,i went to an area disagreement meeting over this with the top dog for our area and
believe me the way they were talking, leaves me in no doubt they will do as they please.The Reps pointed out that the finish times would take us
past the USO Spec of 2pm last letter to which he was told "that it's only a target to aim for and if we go past it,so what"
And before anyone says the Reps aren't up to it let me ashore you they are very good but against this type of management style what are they to do
when the top brass in the union seem to be nowhere to be found.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 31 Oct 2008, 18:50

Geezer wrote:They have done this in my office, we used to start at 0445 got moved to 0515, then 0545 now 0630.They are now trying to push us to 0700.
We have been to stage 3 disagreement and are now being told it will be implemented under executive action. This so called national agreement
means nothing more to them than a charter to be ignored,i went to an area disagreement meeting over this with the top dog for our area and
believe me the way they were talking, leaves me in no doubt they will do as they please.The Reps pointed out that the finish times would take us
past the USO Spec of 2pm last letter to which he was told "that it's only a target to aim for and if we go past it,so what"
And before anyone says the Reps aren't up to it let me ashore you they are very good but against this type of management style what are they to do
when the top brass in the union seem to be nowhere to be found.

Quite right! I think the operative word in this agreement is "consultation" that means they will consult on changes and then change whatever they like whenever they like because the consultation has taken place - remember the pension "consultation" - yes of course you do, they are still "consulting" nine months after they changed it - well HQ is still consulting with anyone who'll listen, RM have done consulting.

Our latest nugget of "consultation" - Park and Loop, whilst the "consulting" was taking place 11 new vans arrived in the yard and the park and loop started Monday gone and boy is it a smoker, can't wait to see what happens when the Xmas press starts.

shelanda · Post by **shelanda** » 31 Oct 2008, 19:04

My useless piece of ooops there I go again!!! when questioned about national agreement said they were going to war on the national agreement..... they are dispicable the lot of them!!!!!

dunposting · Post by **dunposting** » 01 Nov 2008, 00:11

Seems there bringing the start times later bit by bit in every office.
Of course we all know that they are doing this so they can do away with pm collections and sack all the pm people.
Who they kidding!!!

Tear up all agreements we'll been conned!!

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 01 Nov 2008, 00:32

It doesn't matter what they want to do, if they want a later start then let them but they have to be aware that goodwill has mostly gone and if they proceed with their plans then all the goodwill will disappear.

Remember, if we work our contracted hours then RM will fall apart in rapid time

Post by **dvbuk55** » 01 Nov 2008, 14:07

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:Remember, if we work our contracted hours then RM will fall apart in rapid time

If only people would heed your advice - two weeks of no overtime and the place would be on its knees and they would have to do something.

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 01 Nov 2008, 14:19

dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:Remember, if we work our contracted hours then RM will fall apart in rapid time
If only people would heed your advice - two weeks of no overtime and the place would be on its knees and they would have to do something.

Hear hear brother

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 01 Nov 2008, 17:08

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:Remember, if we work our contracted hours then RM will fall apart in rapid time
If only people would heed your advice - two weeks of no overtime and the place would be on its knees and they would have to do something.
Hear hear brother

if we work to contract hours they say we are not working hard enough or not prepping or walking fast enough or talking 2 much!! What is a person to do? this will affect me with pegasus as my walk is to big.

mailman71 · Post by **mailman71** » 01 Nov 2008, 19:57

if management are'nt going to stick to their side of the agreements about earlier finishing times on a saturday the union should ballot the membership for industrial action and put a ban on overtime.