4 1/2 hour delivery !

sareknees · Post by **sareknees** » 14 Oct 2008, 15:01

Was the main talking point in our "weekly" WTLL session... Cheeky b@£$^&*% even had the nerve to hand out sheets of paper to let us express our views ! All be it with our names on them...good ain RM

Apparently our area reps have gave them the nod to go ahead....this in an office where streets on the overhead Sheet have been demolished for over 5 years at least....you couldn,t make up some of the stuff up we are subjected to now

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 14 Oct 2008, 15:46

Moved to Union room to see if we can get some feedback

marky · Post by **marky** » 14 Oct 2008, 16:04

national agreement says max 3 1/2 hour delivery, tell them thanks but no thanks,

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 14 Oct 2008, 16:25

sareknees wrote:Was the main talking point in our "weekly" WTLL session... Cheeky b@£$^&*% even had the nerve to hand out sheets of paper to let us express our views ! All be it with our names on them...good ain RM

Apparently our area reps have gave them the nod to go ahead....this in an office where streets on the overhead Sheet have been demolished for over 5 years at least....you couldn,t make up some of the stuff up we are subjected to now

Are you a trial office mate under phase 3 of pay and mod?

Post by **POSTMAN** » 14 Oct 2008, 17:48

Trial office or not,4-30hrs aint in the mix.

guvenor · Post by **guvenor** » 14 Oct 2008, 17:56

NOPE DONT DO IT WE REJECTED OURR WONDERFUL OFFER OF 4 HRS
RECOMMENDED BY OUR UNION REP
WHATS HE GETTING OUT OF IT
3 1/2 DEL STILL STANDS
WAIT FOR NATIONAL AGREEMENT ON THIS

sareknees · Post by **sareknees** » 14 Oct 2008, 20:08

Work in the East of Scotland mate...should find out more tomorrow

Its all regarding shared vans , both types of trolleys etc etc....think most of the lads at the meeting were thinking it was a joke!

The opposition companies would struggle to make a worse job of running RM than our current incompetant "bosses" here locally

guvenor · Post by **guvenor** » 15 Oct 2008, 19:29

west of scot not doing 4 or 4 1/2 del not telling exactly where for sake of reprisals
paisley maybe ive heard
you start longer del spans they will shut smaller dos and regionalize thats planned hold firm

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 03 Nov 2008, 09:24

Working a 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward now all those saps voted for modenisation for 0.65p after the stikes. It would be wise to not worry who's got a cushie round, but keep a good eye on your own. The new machines will take care of your prep work, there will hardly be any sorting (except missorts) and the only thing that you will have to feed in your bundles is the packets. However remembering that 16kg max for your first bag and 11kg there after unless there are stairs to climb then that reduces to 8kg and then placing all your bags out for the delivery support drivers will drive the delivery office manager and there line managers potty trying to resource every body . 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward buddy.....

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 03 Nov 2008, 18:26

wolfie citizen smith wrote:Working a 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward now all those saps voted for modenisation for 0.65p after the stikes. It would be wise to not worry who's got a cushie round, but keep a good eye on your own. The new machines will take care of your prep work, there will hardly be any sorting (except missorts) and the only thing that you will have to feed in your bundles is the packets. However remembering that 16kg max for your first bag and 11kg there after unless there are stairs to climb then that reduces to 8kg and then placing all your bags out for the delivery support drivers will drive the delivery office manager and there line managers potty trying to resource every body . 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward buddy.....

In no way has the delivery spec changed it is still 3.5 hour's max!. If your unit interpret's these agreement's wrong i suggest you and your fellow members get a new unit rep or even area rep!.

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 04 Nov 2008, 10:03

k979aaa wrote:
wolfie citizen smith wrote:Working a 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward now all those saps voted for modenisation for 0.65p after the stikes. It would be wise to not worry who's got a cushie round, but keep a good eye on your own. The new machines will take care of your prep work, there will hardly be any sorting (except missorts) and the only thing that you will have to feed in your bundles is the packets. However remembering that 16kg max for your first bag and 11kg there after unless there are stairs to climb then that reduces to 8kg and then placing all your bags out for the delivery support drivers will drive the delivery office manager and there line managers potty trying to resource every body . 4 1/2 hour delivery is the way forward buddy.....
In no way has the delivery spec changed it is still 3.5 hour's max!. If your unit interpret's these agreement's wrong i suggest you and your fellow members get a new unit rep or even area rep!.

if i'm wrong i'll hold my hands up and apologise, but from a very reliable source this will happen and delivery units with 7.5ton (600) vehicles will lose those vehicles to mail centres and the duty holders of those (600) duties will have a chance to follow there work. like i say if i'm wrong i apologise.

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 04 Nov 2008, 11:11

Royal Mail pushes CWU aside to prepare jobs massacre…Prepare to strike
Postal Workers Labour Party Conference Rally Bulletin, Sept 20 2008
Royal Mail has announced massive cuts in the next six months, closing mail centres and installing new machinery. It will mean a jobs massacre in the post. To add insult to injury, the bosses have imposed this, completely ignoring - effectively derecognising - the union in the process.
In June, the Communication Workers Union conference voted unanimously to strike to stop closures, job losses and pensions cuts if Royal Mail refused to compromise. Now's the time to carry out our threat.

Mail centres and DOs to close

Royal Mail had already stated it will close mail centres in Oxford, Reading and Coventry. Despite CWU requests for Royal Mail to stop imposing cuts and negotiate, Royal Mail then sucker-punched us again, announcing five more mail centres to go in the north west of England - Liverpool, Oldham, Bolton, Stockport and Crewe. These will be replaced with a new, distant regional distribution centre in Warrington. More mail centres are under similar threat, with thousands of jobs to go.
Meanwhile they are introducing Flat-sorting machines (which sort A4-sized mail) and over 500 Walk Sorting Machines that sort letters into street order, cutting down on the mail sorting that is usually done in delivery offices. A few DOs will be turned into local “hubs” to house these machines, but many more will become redundant and closed - up to one in three.
Some Leeds and Bradford DOs are among the first to receive these machines, this Autumn. If Royal Mail get away with it, the programme will be rolled out across the country by 2010.
With less time needed to sort mail, either thousands of full-time jobs will become part-time or be cut - that's on-the-dole time. Part-time hours will be shrunk from the current 25-30 hours a week - which you can barely live on even with overtime - to 20 hours. This is a step towards TNT’s “Dutch Model” where a majority of the workforce are casualised and non-unionised.

Tens of thousands of jobs will go if we do not act now!

In the last few weeks CWU leaders Dave Ward, Billy Hayes and the Postal Executive have made threats to activate the conference vote and organise a ballot if Royal Mail does not stop and negotiate a national agreement on these issues. On 5 September, Dave Ward said the leadership had been “inundated with industrial action requests”. So what are we waiting for, let's strike!
Ward and Hayes argue we must accept some closures and some job losses - but this year's conference again restated our long-established aim of the 35 hour week with no loss of pay. After all, Royal Mail believes that Walk Sorting Machines will absorb an hour of sorting time from each DO - that's the 35 hour week right there!
Why should these saving go towards Adam Crozier's bonus and a profitable Royal Mail ripe for privatisation, instead of improving the conditions of those who generate the revenue? More importantly, why are our leaders not fighting for the union's agreed aim of the 35-hour week?
Instead, while our leaders have been holding out for negotiations, local negotiators have been left in the lurch. Royal Mail managers are charging ahead, and CWU officials are drifting into all sorts of schemes - ten hour days, accepting job losses - with no national strategy. Similarly the national union signed off on team-working and other aspects of Phase 3 flexibility without any consultation and left it to local offices once again to be run over by changes imposed from above.

postie99 · Post by **postie99** » 19 Nov 2008, 15:51

ok i've been a postie 12years 2 at p/t and 10 at f/t. Our rep mentioned today that we will be getting a vote at our office for a 3hr 30min or a 4hr 30min delivery after the year, most of us laughed at the idea then a p/t member who has 15 years employment at rm asked how that will affect him and p/t staff in general? The reps reply " we need to safeguard f/t jobs and this gives us that option, p/t ill be offered f/t if they dont want it wel.... they will need to look for another job.
I could not believe the reply as p/t pay there fees same as me and it sounded like pure discrimination against p/t members. I then asked how can we vote for something that is deciding the outcome of a fellow workers future because if 4hr 30 mins come in p/t would go so how can we vote on that?? dont think it would be leagal either.
10 of the p/t out of 18, 2 of which have 32 years between themat are more senior than a few of the f/t so that would also be doing away with the seniority that we have.
I just want to know where does the p/t staff stand on the vote for 4 and a half hours as p/t is available for everyone just now or in the future if there are in changes in there life to do the hours that suit there circumstances.
I think the atmosphere between p/t and f/t staff are only going to get worse as we are saying its a "us and them thing" with safe gaurding f/t jobs and who cares attitude towards p/t jobs this should never be happening nowadays.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 19 Nov 2008, 16:25

4.5 Hr delivery for me is a non starter as a FT I would rather have my hours reduced than do a 4.5hr delivery every day.

However, this is a very complicated issue and I will try to explain it as I see if an active member of the CWU, but not a rep.

With walk sequencing coming in there will be a reduction in the amount of indoor prep for every walk. How much of any impact this will have is still in question, but you can guarantee 1 thing Royal Mail will find a way to fill in the saved time. The Unions position is that they want to keep the ratio of FT to PT as high as possible as this gives the chance of PTs to apply for FT positions as they come available. The only way the Union can see of keeping people on a 40 hour contract is to opt for or agree on a longer walk span. They could try and reduce a FT position to a 35hr week without loss of pay, and though this is a fine aspiration, can you really see RM accepting that.

There will be some saving for PTs hours as well when walk sequencing hits there walk but obviously not as much as FTs and again there has to be a choice in reducing contracted hours or increasing the outdoor segment.

The only way PTs are likely to be made up to FT in future after WS is if there are 40 hours duties left for them to apply for, and as suggested above that may mean increasing walk lengths. The drawback in increasing walk lengths is that there will be less walks and therefore less postal workers in the long run. However, the Union do have a very good record in that recently there have been no forced redundancies since MTSF came in, and hopefully this trend will continue.

In a Nutshell there are choices:

Agreeing to longer walks:

Pros:
FTs keep their 40hr contracts and wages
PTs have a chance at some point in applying for FT positions when the become vacant:

Cons:
Longer walks and all the issues involved with this. Fatigue, age etc
Eventual or immediate reduction in staff.

Rejecting Longer walks:

Pros:
Walks stay the same and no revision is required.

Cons:
There will be pressure to reduce contracted hours.
Less chance of PTs being able to select a FT position.
More Likelihood of collapsing walks on a permanent day to day basis.

I guess the CWU is caught between a rock and a hard place and whoever has a vote on this has a lot of hard thinking to do. But whatever you do read any proposal from the CWU or management and make sure you understand the full implications on you and your office.

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 19 Nov 2008, 17:44

Spot on Teebs