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ROYAL MAIL APPRAISALS

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TrueBlueTerrier
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Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

linkinpark wrote:How much is that kind of thing open to abuse? The mind boggles

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Completely.

But if it has safeguards built into it, and it has a chain of command (management) to go through, and an ability to query or put in a greviance against it they generally work quite well. However, we all have experienced Royal Mails recording keeping and fact checking in action so they would have to tighten up their Admin procedures a hell of a lot before the Union or anyone should contemplate accepting them.

If they ever do then the Union would do a killing in Desk Diaries as I would suggest to everyone to keep one documenting everything. Weights carried, docket done, meetings had, wtll meetings attended, meetings with managers, release times, meeting with Union members/reps/officers, times in, times out, finish times, indicents on duty, investigations carried out, tests subjected to - basically everything except heart rate and breaths per minute. Yes even when and how long in toilet.
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Tman
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Post by Tman »

[
But if it has safeguards built into it, and it has a chain of command (management) to go through, and an ability to query or put in a greviance against it they generally work quite well.
Don't know about grievance, but if you don't like it you don't sign it and it's returned (to the next higher manager if necessary) for rewriting. Unless you are hoping for promotion, it's pretty pointless anyway.


However, we all have experienced Royal Mails recording keeping and fact checking in action so they would have to tighten up their Admin procedures a hell of a lot before the Union or anyone should contemplate accepting them
.


The Union accepted them many years ago for some grades, but wouldn't have thought RM would have the time or will to introduce them for OPGs.
If they ever do then the Union would do a killing in Desk Diaries as I would suggest to everyone to keep one documenting everything. Weights carried, docket done, meetings had, wtll meetings attended, meetings with managers, release times, meeting with Union members/reps/officers, times in, times out, finish times, indicents on duty, investigations carried out, tests subjected to - basically everything except heart rate and breaths per minute. Yes even when and how long in toilet.
Not really; appraisals (PDRs as they're called now- professional development reviews) can't be used as a disciplinary procedure, nor can the appraiser bring up critical points for the first time. It's not about the day-to-day happenings, but your attitude to RM, colleagues and your job, and all that old tosh.
TrueBlueTerrier
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Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

Tman wrote: Not really; appraisals (PDRs as they're called now- professional development reviews) can't be used as a disciplinary procedure, nor can the appraiser bring up critical points for the first time. It's not about the day-to-day happenings, but your attitude to RM, colleagues and your job, and all that old tosh.
Thats why I suggested a diary so that you can prove that he has not brought it up before. Or that he has and you have made changes as required. Mainly for peace of mind though. I always kept a diary but never used it, just a belt and braces approach which I prefer.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick »

RM tried to bring in personal appraisals for posties with the 'Employee Agenda' in 1996, but it was kicked
into touch by the strikes, and dropped in the subsequent 'Way Forward' Agreement.
It was opposed after PO Counter colleagues at Conference told us how it was operated there - managers
have to down mark a fixed percentage of staff, so people were getting bad appraisals for not wearing ties
for example.
The problem also was that it was apparent that the intention was to introduce performance related pay
increases, so the situation might arise that you might not get a rise if your face didn't fit, or you were
seen as being stroppy, ie standing up to them.
It will probably be raised again at some time - Phase 4 of the Pay & Modernisation Agreement's Joint
Working Group 1 is supposed to be looking into (among other things) performance management.
Last edited by baldrick on 04 May 2008, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
TrueBlueTerrier
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Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

All points agreed Linkinpark totally. Baldrick brings up a good point. Management will try to use the Above average, average and below average system to assess people and that is exactly the same as brining in a quota system which operates in POL.

What, it should do, if it ever comes in, is score you against an agreed target system so that you are scored as an individual and not compared against the postie on the next frame.

Scores could be based on such things as redirection failures, mis-deliveries complained about, letters from customers, appearance of uniform etc.

What it should never be based on is anything not directly involving RM and certainly Union Activities should not be included. Also how much Overtime paid or unpaid, whether you use a car or not, should also never be used in an appraisal system.

However, even though I list things that RM could include I am in no way in favour of it and I would fight as hard as I could against any proposal to bring it in to the bitter end. However, the Union should be thinking about what they might accept as we all know when RM do make a sustained effort to bring it in, they will offer somewhere between £400 - £1,000 to sweet talk the short sighted voters. BTW I don't mind people voting for an agreement, even if I am against it, as long as they vote for long term reasons not short terms one off gains like the bungs they keep throwing at us.
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dvbuk55
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Post by dvbuk55 »

I remember the appraisals and thinking who gives a flying f*ck what these tossers think of me. The system at our place was a line manager carried out the appraisal which was then counter signed by the DOM - on one occasion it was a guy who had been with us for all of a month or so and I thought it would be funny to wind him up a little bit, unfortunately he took it literally and wrote it all down. The DOM, who had been there for a fair while, refused to sign it and called me in to his office for yet another bollocking. I was never called in for another appraisal though.
norbert
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Sorry wouldn't trust RM on thi as far as I could throw them

Post by norbert »

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:All points agreed Linkinpark totally. Baldrick brings up a good point. Management will try to use the Above average, average and below average system to assess people and that is exactly the same as brining in a quota system which operates in POL.

What, it should do, if it ever comes in, is score you against an agreed target system so that you are scored as an individual and not compared against the postie on the next frame.

Scores could be based on such things as redirection failures, mis-deliveries complained about, letters from customers, appearance of uniform etc.

What it should never be based on is anything not directly involving RM and certainly Union Activities should not be included. Also how much Overtime paid or unpaid, whether you use a car or not, should also never be used in an appraisal system.

However, even though I list things that RM could include I am in no way in favour of it and I would fight as hard as I could against any proposal to bring it in to the bitter end. However, the Union should be thinking about what they might accept as we all know when RM do make a sustained effort to bring it in, they will offer somewhere between £400 - £1,000 to sweet talk the short sighted voters. BTW I don't mind people voting for an agreement, even if I am against it, as long as they vote for long term reasons not short terms one off gains like the bungs they keep throwing at us.
Sorry to sound like a doomonger but I'd be inclined to be very suspicious of such a proposal .I'd log everything as RM would stonewall / deny everything to wriggle out of it , if you took things outside the PO .

With another service union we had form 1 charges and form 2 punishments , basically military style , the form 1's had to stand up in a Tribunal as someone bang to rights .

The Union agreed to a Poor Performance Scheme which COULD be vaguely/broadly similar , the only due recourse you had over the stages was a victimization appeal against a manager and the union in ONLY on stage 3 , but you had all this PP for another manager . In a nutshell, it was a way to get people out through the back door , you could have vague stuff ( quell surprise ) , extenuating circumstances , flawed stuff , basically throwing enough s**t at the wall in hope that something might stick .


I realize appraisals are the norm in the corporate world but RM would only do it in a badly handled very negative way , RM would TRY to make it look superficially straight with this career development BS . .

If you were genuinely being victimized and getting pulled up on petty complaints by the public etc , it'd put the Union in a difficult situation as you'd be saying look at those useless lazy c**ts getting away with murder etc which makes you a grass and it's exactly what RM would want .

TBT is right , who are these managers doing these appraisals trying to impress ?

It is a Leighton brainchild , many of his Area Managers are on fixed term contracts subject to appraisal and that's where the pressure is coming from , that's how he works fear , uncertainty and doubt and yes there would be a union bashing agenda only it would all be deliberately worded in a vague / ambiguous /obscure way .

Hostility to management was a poor performance charge for one guy trying to do a rep's job on his own was one . They put 10 on poor performance for taking a brew when they were all straight up on their work , that was a smart a*** ambitious graduate's idea !, all to soften people up and knock the stuffing out of them for privatization .

Don't take notice of me , as I'm just a fanatic but at least I can spell the word .
Last edited by norbert on 05 May 2008, 01:12, edited 2 times in total.
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norbert
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Post by norbert »

dvbuk55 wrote:I remember the appraisals and thinking who gives a flying f*ck what these tossers think of me. The system at our place was a line manager carried out the appraisal which was then counter signed by the DOM - on one occasion it was a guy who had been with us for all of a month or so and I thought it would be funny to wind him up a little bit, unfortunately he took it literally and wrote it all down. The DOM, who had been there for a fair while, refused to sign it and called me in to his office for yet another bollocking. I was never called in for another appraisal though.
that's the old school , you'd have just been shouted at , I found that the old school managers got moved sideways out of the way if they didn't go for all this new stuff in another union & service .
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Tman
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

Post by Tman »

Seems to be runaway paranoia on here.
Appraisals/PDRs are not for pointing out your faults/deficiencies/too long in the bog on March 14th/bike not cleaned/left gate open in the High Street/etc etc. If there problems like that, wouldn't the DOM deal with it at the time rather than wait possibly for a year later?
They're a hangover from the old Civil Service type RM years, and are a load of old toothless crap. Had they wanted them for the old-style career posties, wouldn't they have done it years ago when it might have made a difference?
Anyway, as RM is heading for part-time delivery staff, why would they even want to go down the (expensive and time-consuming) route of trying to bring in this process now?
I reckon they've got bigger things to worry about than asking where Fred Bloggs sees himself in five years.
dvbuk55
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Post by dvbuk55 »

norbert wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:I remember the appraisals and thinking who gives a flying f*ck what these tossers think of me. The system at our place was a line manager carried out the appraisal which was then counter signed by the DOM - on one occasion it was a guy who had been with us for all of a month or so and I thought it would be funny to wind him up a little bit, unfortunately he took it literally and wrote it all down. The DOM, who had been there for a fair while, refused to sign it and called me in to his office for yet another bollocking. I was never called in for another appraisal though.
that's the old school , you'd have just been shouted at , I found that the old school managers got moved sideways out of the way if they didn't go for all this new stuff in another union & service .
Spot on there norbert - the guy is still with RM but seems to have a succession of "special" jobs where he is kept out of the way - he was one of those managers who never carried anything heavier than a piece of paper, not one of these newbies who seem to dash round in ever decreasing circles and ending up you know where. He always had time to walk round and speak to the staff on diverse subjects, not just RM propaganda - that's not to say we never had rows over work but he never held a grudge and realised it wasn't personal.
norbert
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Apparent Paranoia on RMC

Post by norbert »

The CMA must be paranoid as Leighton wanted all his managers on appraisals and to reapply for their own jobs , a little matter of a ballot had some influence and he had to keep the CMA sweet for all the disputes that his sidekick Crozier was spoiling for .
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