Do I have to take an unpaid break if I'm part-time?

[AMids]

I am on a 30hr contract (5 x 6hr days). I am being told that I need to take a 20 minute unpaid (new contract) break in the middle of my shift which I don't want to do. As I understand it, in UK law if you work up to six hours, you aren't automatically entitled to a break. Is the reverse true - if I'm working 6 hours, can I be forced to take a break?..... I'd rather be home 20 mins early.
Thanks.

[fadetogrey63]

These breaks for new contracts are a pain, if your working with someone on a old contract how can you just stop for 20 mins during your walk share, they want to fin quickly so they can leave earlier.. We now have to come in 20 mins earlier so we can fin same time as the other posties who get paid their breaks, and that 20mins earlier don't include a break we've been told

[Oscar_Grouch]

As the law states, yes you have to have it somewhere in the middle of the day. Not at the beginning or end.

Logistically, it's up to your manager to decide/agree when the best time in the day would be, especially if you are ½ of a van share partnership

[AMids]

Except in law this is the case when you work over 6 hours and I am not contracted to work over 6 hours…..

[richardkhill]

Except in law this is the case when you work over 6 hours and I am not contracted to work over 6 hours…..

This is correct. So your not obliged to take a 20min break if you only work your contractual 6hrs. Technically though, if you work a minute over your 6hrs, the 20min break becomes obligatory, for which RM Might deduct from you.

From my own payroll enquiries & research, those of us on the 6hr/p/d - 30hr/p/w (unpaid break) contracts are paid £1634.51 per month. Based on £12.54p/h, this equates to an average of 130.43hrs per month. Some months you may actually work slightly more than this. But other months, you'll work slightly less. So it just about balances out over a full 12 months.

Where you would need to be careful is with overtime. I've heard/seen stories where staff, having worked a 6hr rest day, have only been paid for 5.7hrs (20min deduction for unpaid break).

As we're only paid monthly, it's strongly recommended that you keep your own records of any overtime completed & even take a photo of the overtime sheet, where you've submitted your OT. Never assume your Manager will record any agreed OT for you. You Must complete the OT sheet yourself.

[tramssirhc]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

[tramssirhc]

One thing's for sure though. The CWU is not interested in the slightest about unpaid breaks for workers.

[fadetogrey63]

]You Must complete the OT sheet yourself.[
[/quote]

Interesting, when I enquired about this when I first started working over I was told there is no sheet for us to fill in, the manager comes round every morning asking us how much overtime we did..

[TopperGas]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

[Barnacle]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

Exactly! Why would they?? This topic has come up before about people working over their time because of unpaid breaks- makes zero sense.

[tramssirhc]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

The employer is carrying out their legal duty of care to an employee by introducing a break. The law is clear, breaks do not have to be paid. The worker would not be working 6 hrs 20 minutes as there would be a break in the working time. Lots of employers give workers a 20 minute unpaid break during working time of less than 6 hours.

The problem here is that the CWU won't address the issue because they know they'll end up trying to defend the paid break agreement and lose it. So instead of defending exploited workers the CWU ignores the issue altogether.

[tramssirhc]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

Exactly! Why would they?? This topic has come up before about people working over their time because of unpaid breaks- makes zero sense.

A worker taking a 20 minute unpaid break would not 'work over their time'. Their working time would include the break but they do not work during that time.

[Barnacle]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

Exactly! Why would they?? This topic has come up before about people working over their time because of unpaid breaks- makes zero sense.

A worker taking a 20 minute unpaid break would not 'work over their time'. Their working time would include the break but they do not work during that time.

There is another thread on here where someone was having to work 20mins over because of the unpaid break. It clearly depends on how a DOM is interpreting the unpaid break.

[tramssirhc]

Whilst the working time regulations state that a 20 minute break must be facilitated during the working time, not at the beginning or end, where a worker works more than 6 hours it does not say that employers cannot arrange a break for working time 6 hours or less.

Employers can instruct you to take a break and arrange a break of the length they wish. No tribunal would find against an employer facilitating breaks for working time of 6 hours or less.

How exactly this break would be facilitated in the postal industry is an interesting question. No worker in the industry once out on delivery would be able to simply stop for 20 minutes at a place away from their workplace. The working time regulations require that the break is taken away from the workplace so it cannot be taken in a company vehicle.

I would imagine that the 20 minute unpaid break would be facilitated indoors before commencing deliveries

Why would an Employment Tribunal find in favour of an employer who's effectively forcing an employee to work, or at least be at work, for 6 hrs 20 mins when there's no legal obligation to be at work for more than 6 hrs?

Exactly! Why would they?? This topic has come up before about people working over their time because of unpaid breaks- makes zero sense.

A worker taking a 20 minute unpaid break would not 'work over their time'. Their working time would include the break but they do not work during that time.

There is another thread on here where someone was having to work 20mins over because of the unpaid break. It clearly depends on how a DOM is interpreting the unpaid break.

There needs to be a clear arrangement for the break - it cannot be at the beginning or the end of the working time, it must be away from the workplace and it must be uninterrupted. Workers in the postal industry will find this hard to achieve unless the break is taken before commencing deliveries.

Any worker whose working time is 6 hours has no legal right to an unpaid break. However employers can arrange an unpaid break for workers whose time is 6 hours or less. The law does not prevent this but if it is applied then the stipulations for those working over 6 hours apply.

[yellowbelly]

Interesting write up from 2017 by Coodes Solicitors of Cornwall re an ET regarding rest breaks and I've enlarged a piece of text in the last paragraph.

https://coodes.co.uk/2017/01/staff-rest-breaks/

Is it up to employers or employees to enforce rest breaks in the workplace?

Most businesses know that employees who work for more than six hours are entitled a rest break of at least 20 consecutive minutes sometime during the working day. What is less clear is who is responsible for ensuring the break is taken. Is this down to the employee, or should the employer ensure it is provided?

A recent case

A recent case, involving a relief roadside controller on a bus service, put this issue under the spotlight. He had been working 8 and a half hours a day, with the understanding he would take half an hour’s unpaid rest break. However, he often found it difficult to take his break because of the nature of the work. His employer then emailed him stating that he should now work straight through for eight hours and finish work 30 minutes earlier. At a later date, the employee then raised a grievance claiming his employer had failed to give him statutory rest breaks.

What were the findings?

Interestingly, a tribunal found that the employee had not been denied his statutory right as he had never requested his breaks. The case went to the Employment Appeal Tribunal who held that in fact the employer has a duty to provide a worker with a statutory rest break. It does not need to be requested by the employee.

This case clearly shows that the onus is on employers to ensure rest breaks are provided during a working day of six hours or more. Of course, the reality is that some employees will choose to work through their breaks – and they can’t be forced to take them. If this happens they cannot demand additional pay or expect to be able to leave work earlier.

There are two important messages from this case. Firstly, make sure your working arrangements have provision for all staff working at least six hours to have a break. Secondly, breaks do not have to be paid.