Pay stopped

[sumason]

Hi,

Someone in our office has been off sick for 2 weeks .

He has been told he will be having his pay stopped because he was seen out of his house.

He has a doctors note and isn’t fit for work.

Can they do this?

[mw7485]

Was this person just seen "out & about", or doing something that may cast doubt on the accuracy of the (not) fit Note?

[aiden01]

Hi,

Someone in our office has been off sick for 2 weeks .

He has been told he will be having his pay stopped because he was seen out of his house.

He has a doctors note and isn’t fit for work.

Can they do this?

Was he seen doing any work outside his house or just having some fresh air.. please explain really easier to get an honest opinion.

[redlen]

Simple answer is no, the manager cannot do this.
Will be unlawful deduction of wages.

If an employee is off sick, it wil be down to a third party health care professional who makes any decision. Be that a GP, Occupational Health etc. Royal Mail managers are not qualified to make that decision.

YOU CAN REFERENCE:

Scottish Courage v Guthrie UKEAT/0788/03 2004

But better to use the recent 2022 EAT Judgement

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... EAT_80.pdf


Pay should only be withheld if the employer has sufficient evidence and a specific contractual right to do so.


As the above is from an Employment Appeals Tribunals, and case law.

If pay is stopped, submit a grievance and quote the above

[daveyeff]

Hi,

Someone in our office has been off sick for 2 weeks .

He has been told he will be having his pay stopped because he was seen out of his house.

He has a doctors note and isn’t fit for work.

Can they do this?

could have been going to the doctors/walk-in centre/pharmacy for all they know. maybe if he was videoed tarmacing the road, landscaping a garden or roof felting, they dont have a case against him

[Smir]

Also spend an odd sick with what?

[IAMNOTANUMBER]

I know of a postie at another office who is off with work related stress, they received a phone call, and have been told as its work related to their own office, they must move to another office or their money will be stopped. Can this be right. Any help would be appreciated

[redlen]

Gray area

First it needs to be confirmed what is causing the work related stress. Things like work load, performance management from managers, inaproproate comments etc.

Also how far is this other office from home office. Will the employee be placed at a financial disadvantage?

Has a rehab plan/reasonable adjustments been put into place to get the employee back to work with a stress risk assessment?

[Tman]

I know of a postie at another office who is off with work related stress, they received a phone call, and have been told as its work related to their own office, they must move to another office or their money will be stopped. Can this be right. Any help would be appreciated

if it was presented as an either/or situation then someone is talking crap.
Money being stopped is a long way down the line from being requested to move offices.

Regarding the first case, who saw him out of his home and what was he doing? It's a lot more complex than "I saw you out of your house and so I'm going to stop your money". DIMS/DOMs/whoever don't have that power.
They (DIM/DOM) could contact what passes for HR these days raising concerns, but they don't have the final decision to stop someone's pay especially on merely seeing someone outside of his home.

[IAMNOTANUMBER]

Spoken to said person and the stress is related to management, and have a b and h in against him,
if they moved office it would financially disadvantage them, plus they would still have stress, as we all know, if he's moved he will be put on the crap rounds as a reserve, they have their own duty at present office..
They have said there is also stress in their personal life.

[Haditup]

As soon as you’ve mention ‘work related stress’
The employer is obligated to make necessary adjustments to work and resolve the stress.

Sounds like your colleague as gone on the sick and they have asked him / her to attend a meeting with a threat of pay being stopped if they do not attend.
Royal Mail then stops pay which obviously causes more stress and anxiety.

Managers are known to use this bullying counter productive approach which is clearly an awful way to deal with a person suffering from work related or personal life stress.

There are laws protecting employees from stress which is worth reading
https://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/causes.htm

[IAMNOTANUMBER]

Spoken to said person and the stress is related to management, and have a b and h in against him,
if they moved office it would financially disadvantage them, plus they would still have stress, as we all know, if he's moved he will be put on the crap rounds as a reserve, they have their own duty at present office..
They have said there is also stress in their personal life.

Received call off said person last week saying the b&h case as gone against him (surprise, surprise) . the conclusion was he needed to speak to manager and to arrange weekly contact to see how things are. So said person went in to see com but was told as the b&h had come down in his favour they had 3 choices return to work, move office or have pay stopped. Said person still has a sick note to cover them for several weeks, but said they were prepared to transfer as this would help elevate the stress at work. Speaking to said person they have said this will still not help with the anxiety and stress they have in their personal life. Said person has put in an appeal against the b&h decision, but has been told this won't make any difference to his wages being stopped. Any advice guys thanks in advance

[redlen]

Cannot comment on the B&H but work related stress is a different matter.

It all depends if the employee has had a referral to Occupational health.
If not then the manager is talking out of his rear and stopping pay unlawful.

[IAMNOTANUMBER]

Cannot comment on the B&H but work related stress is a different matter.

It all depends if the employee has had a referral to Occupational health.
If not then the manager is talking out of his rear and stopping pay unlawful.

Said person had talk with OHS and their advice was as this was probably going to lead to them being on the box for a month, and they should be re-referred in a months time. They have asked the com to re-refer them but the pay will still be stopped. This has caused more stress and anxiety to them and that's why they have said they will transfer.