Sickness and Annualized hours. Easy to sort out right?

[DaveF14]

First off Im all for the strikes. Sundays, later starts, a pay rise with something closer to inflation. That needs a fight. However, I do understand that the company needs to modernise and changes do need to happen.

Sickpay.

I've been in the job over 20 years. I've seen people, the same people play the system every year, with piss poor excuses, same patterns, not giving a toss that puts strain and extra work on their fellow colleague's. I feel sorry for the genuine postie who will be suffering with an illness or personnel issue. We all have them. £250 MILLION a year on dealing with sickness levels. How much of that is genuine???

How about scraping the Christmas bonus and just have a yearly bonus, of say £1000?? Throughout the year, you deduct any sick days from that bonus, rewarding those that come in day in, day out, doing what they are paid to do. I guarantee that £250 million will get reduced by the end of that.

Annualized salary.

Has anybody actually seen a plan of this and whats been proposed? What change this makes to the working week in the winter months?

A full timer on 37 hours a week is asked to do an extra 1 hour a day, 5 days a week in the months of November and December making it a 42 hour working week, which we all mostly do anyways because, yes its the busiest time of year. To counter that in the 2 quietest months of the year, say June and July, you work an hour less a day and a 32 hour week, when the weather is better and you have more time to spend with your family and to do the hobbies or whatever you like doing. Does that sound a bad thing? Im missing out on potentially 5 hours a week in overtime around xmas but gaining more time in the summer with my family. Emm, sounds ok to me.

Its like asking a greenkeeper at your local golf course to work more hours in the summer when the grass is growing and less in the winter when nothing is growing. Its a no brainer. I think the company does need to modernise in some areas. I love my routines, I hate change. I agree with the strikes and will continue to strike. However, some points in the negotiations shouldn't be that hard to agree on.

Just ideas people.

[TopperGas]

What if you don't want to spend 5 hours with the wife, family, sat at home alone etc, in the summer but need the £50 overtime in the winter?

As far as sickness the issue is then staff working with colds, COVID, etc and passing it on to the entire DO. I've no idea why start don't get a small bonus, £250?, for taking no sickness, although I was told by last employer they had to stop even sending Thank You letters for a 100% attendance after a complaint!

[hans solo]

It doesn’t work like that in reality though
They would cut back the early overtime during busy times because you would be expected to clear regardless of hours
Would be a lot more than 1 hr
And when summer comes there is no way they will let you be on lesser hrs
REM our last agreement ripped up
That is all

[daveyeff]

some duties go over their time in the summer so that's a no. its been said it would be a logistics nightmare to bring in anyways, and it wont just be an hour a day in the winter.

[1617mel]

Hans solo got it, I'm over every day in summer ,never mind crimbo, sick pay I only care about the genuinely ill persons In our Co , Not the minority shirkers, I will forever vote to keep our sick pay conditions, management can look after the shirkers

[nickinoneck]

You forget a later start time of potentially up to 3 hours. Some of us start at 8 now, moving to an 11 o clock start in winter doing an 8 and a half or 9 hour day.......well you can work that out! It’s a no from me.

[pieoftheday]

Hello is this Simon again? Your annualised salary bit is part of what we're striking against?

[DaveF14]

You forget a later start time of potentially up to 3 hours. Some of us start at 8 now, moving to an 11 o clock start in winter doing an 8 and a half or 9 hour day.......well you can work that out! It’s a no from me.

Not sure what contract your own, if you do longs and shorts. Say your on 35 hours. 8-3 normally. November and December 8-4, June and July 8-2. Overtime is not compulsory.
But yes I agree, if they bring in later starts its a massive no here also.

[DaveF14]

Hello is this Simon again? Your annualised salary bit is part of what we're striking against?

Its one of the parts yes and not one of the bigger issues being discussed Im sure!!!

Im guessing you'll be working that extra hour in November and December as it is? Overtime is not compulsory. But you'll be finished an hour earlier in the summer, when the weather is better and you can spend that extra time doing that outdoor activity or whatever you enjoy doing.

Are you telling me that the union shouldn't be negotiating with the company and it should be a blanket no to everything that's being discussed? Whatever happens there will be changes. Like I said already, I like routine and I hate change, but something will have to give. If they somehow agreed that Sundays are a no, later starts are a no, a decent pay rise gets agreed, I wont continue to strike over annualized salaries.

[pieoftheday]

Hello is this Simon again? Your annualised salary bit is part of what we're striking against?

Its one of the parts yes and not one of the bigger issues being discussed Im sure!!!

Im guessing you'll be working that extra hour in November and December as it is? Overtime is not compulsory. But you'll be finished an hour earlier in the summer, when the weather is better and you can spend that extra time doing that outdoor activity or whatever you enjoy doing.

Are you telling me that the union shouldn't be negotiating with the company and it should be a blanket no to everything that's being discussed? Whatever happens there will be changes. Like I said already, I like routine and I hate change, but something will have to give. If they somehow agreed that Sundays are a no, later starts are a no, a decent pay rise gets agreed, I wont continue to strike over annualized salaries.

Why will I be working that extra hr in November and December? I dont make any time in summer

[DaveF14]

Hello is this Simon again? Your annualised salary bit is part of what we're striking against?

Its one of the parts yes and not one of the bigger issues being discussed Im sure!!!

Im guessing you'll be working that extra hour in November and December as it is? Overtime is not compulsory. But you'll be finished an hour earlier in the summer, when the weather is better and you can spend that extra time doing that outdoor activity or whatever you enjoy doing.

Are you telling me that the union shouldn't be negotiating with the company and it should be a blanket no to everything that's being discussed? Whatever happens there will be changes. Like I said already, I like routine and I hate change, but something will have to give. If they somehow agreed that Sundays are a no, later starts are a no, a decent pay rise gets agreed, I wont continue to strike over annualized salaries.

Why will I be working that extra hr in November and December? I dont make any time in summer

So you dont work any overtime? Nothing wrong with that. With annualized salary you work that extra hour in the 2 winter months when its busy and an hour less in the summer months when its quiet. Is that a real hardship?

[pieoftheday]

I dont make any time in the summer, other than the odd bellend that's comes in in their own time to get out early most in our office either just get done on time or cut off. Also with many years of xmas deliveries under my belt I know that to complete most of the deliveries in my office it could take 2 or more hrs OT

[Zicomurphy]

Annualised hours and commit to deliver is the biggest red line for me. Not only will you have no finish time but from the way they have explained it so far it sounds very much like compulsory overtime. Bank the first ten hours and then pay you overtime for anything over that. No explanation at all what will happen if you don’t want to work over your contracted hours. Commit to deliver what? Your duty? Or if someone phones in sick will it be your duty and half of theirs? Remember Thompson going on about “don’t just clear your duty clear your office”?

Add in performance standards and banking of hours worked over only being allowed if your manager agrees the workload justified it and the whole thing sounds like a nightmare. If it was to come in do any of us think it would be implemented competently or fairly?

As for sickness any changes to the procedure will punish everyone not just those who play the system. The only way to target those who do play the system is to allow managers to decide what is and what isn’t a genuine absence which is a dangerous path to go down.

[thedonkey]

Christmas is a rest period given the amount of lapsing I get in the summer. I understand the latest move is to absorb the lapsing into the delivery all year round. Inevitable end result is a period of sickness
Either body broken or mental health issues.

[hans solo]

Which is why they want to change the attendance prosecute