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General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

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TopperGas
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Joined: 13 Feb 2021, 22:46
Gender: Male

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by TopperGas »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 16:00
In lamens terms it's a manufactured decline and everyone knows it.
The largest reduction in mail has come in the Business to Customer sector.

Banks.
Utilities.
Legal.
Councils.
Even the NHS.
All kinds of business.

As these all have access to DSA and are not subject to price manipulation the truth is technology is driving the bulk of that decline not Royal Mail. I haven't had a bank statement, a phone or utility bill or even a letter from the doctor in years.

In the past two weeks I've had two pieces of D2D, a pension statement and a small catalogue from Mountain Warehouse.

Yes, Royal Mail is attempting to price stamped 1st class mail out of the system but that represents a tiny fraction of the mail we deliver... or don't any more.

We need to face reality.

One of the main drivers for later starts is that flying what little first class stamped mail we still have to every corner of the country is no longer financially sustainable, it's nothing to do with a sudden urge to be green and everything to do with too many flights with too little potential revenue on them.

That is only going to get worse as 1st class stamped mail continues to decline and that move from air to road and rail is going to have a detrimental affect on our members.

Had we pushed for a change to the USO regarding 1st class stamped mail earlier perhaps we could have avoided that.

If Royal Mail moving to a 5 day USO means the business can make savings that it will otherwise come at our members for that is something we have to consider.
The company will still have to fly letters to every corner of the UK 5 days out of 7 rather than 6 days out of 7, what's the betting whenever a 5 day service is ever agreed that within a year or two RM will be asking it to be reduced to 3 days a week?

As far as the general public saying they don't want a 6 day a week service was this survey done by OFCOM or a truly independent company?
dazzler123
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by dazzler123 »

i dont recall being asked if i wanted a lesser mail delivery service
clashcityrocker
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by clashcityrocker »

TopperGas wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 20:08


The company will still have to fly letters to every corner of the UK 5 days out of 7 rather than 6 days out of 7,
I thought the plan was to do away with planes and use road/rail?
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
ted_e_bear
Posts: 3865
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by ted_e_bear »

dazzler123 wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 20:55
i dont recall being asked if i wanted a lesser mail delivery service
Me neither, mind you if they asked would you object if we didn't deliver mail on Saturdays I probably wouldn't, but if they told the truth and said what if we only delivered your replacement credit/debit cards/anything else you actually want that isn't a tracked item when we can be arsed to get sufficient staff that would be different.
LouBarlow
Posts: 4611
Joined: 15 Oct 2007, 18:56

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by LouBarlow »

TopperGas wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 20:08
Woody Guthrie wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 16:00
In lamens terms it's a manufactured decline and everyone knows it.
The largest reduction in mail has come in the Business to Customer sector.

Banks.
Utilities.
Legal.
Councils.
Even the NHS.
All kinds of business.

As these all have access to DSA and are not subject to price manipulation the truth is technology is driving the bulk of that decline not Royal Mail. I haven't had a bank statement, a phone or utility bill or even a letter from the doctor in years.

In the past two weeks I've had two pieces of D2D, a pension statement and a small catalogue from Mountain Warehouse.

Yes, Royal Mail is attempting to price stamped 1st class mail out of the system but that represents a tiny fraction of the mail we deliver... or don't any more.

We need to face reality.

One of the main drivers for later starts is that flying what little first class stamped mail we still have to every corner of the country is no longer financially sustainable, it's nothing to do with a sudden urge to be green and everything to do with too many flights with too little potential revenue on them.

That is only going to get worse as 1st class stamped mail continues to decline and that move from air to road and rail is going to have a detrimental affect on our members.

Had we pushed for a change to the USO regarding 1st class stamped mail earlier perhaps we could have avoided that.

If Royal Mail moving to a 5 day USO means the business can make savings that it will otherwise come at our members for that is something we have to consider.
The company will still have to fly letters to every corner of the UK 5 days out of 7 rather than 6 days out of 7, what's the betting whenever a 5 day service is ever agreed that within a year or two RM will be asking it to be reduced to 3 days a week?

As far as the general public saying they don't want a 6 day a week service was this survey done by OFCOM or a truly independent company?
I’m presuming they will ditch flights entirely and use lorries, trains and slow boats. It won’t matter how long they take if the USO is removed or relaxed.
postslippete
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by postslippete »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
21 Sep 2023, 16:00

One of the main drivers for later starts is that flying what little first class stamped mail we still have to every corner of the country is no longer financially sustainable, it's nothing to do with a sudden urge to be green and everything to do with too many flights with too little potential revenue on them.

That is only going to get worse as 1st class stamped mail continues to decline and that move from air to road and rail is going to have a detrimental affect on our members.

Had we pushed for a change to the USO regarding 1st class stamped mail earlier perhaps we could have avoided that.

If Royal Mail moving to a 5 day USO means the business can make savings that it will otherwise come at our members for that is something we have to consider.


Woody, I don't think I'm smarter than anyone and this forum generates a lot of opinions but I usually see pass the bullsh*t. I actually agree with you that mail arriving in delivery offices is little to do with going green (its a convenient excuse) and everything about reducing costs.


However....I disagree with your opening statement that this is the main reason for later starts. I know this topic is about the USO but what evidence do we have that the company are really that committed to it?? It's not actually the mail reaching the delivery offices that is the problem - it's the fact that delivery offices aren't delivering it everyday!! Whether that's 75% of mail being delivered overall in offices or not, we all know that when push comes to shove what do managers really want us to do - deliver the post or the parcels? What gets left behind? Is it letters in the frames or Yorks full of undelivered Tracked parcels?

With this in mind I believe that what is driving the later starts isn't anything to do with 1st class mail or flying planes but Royal Mail's absolute commitment to spending billions on parcel hubs and utilising them so that these parcels are going to be arriving in our delivery offices later. Obviously, it wouldn't make sense for the mail to still arrive as it is now as posties will just be sat around for an hour waiting for the parcels. Royal Mail are trying to reduce our indoor time. How they do it and how it will all work out I don't know - but its not radical changes to our network being made overnight.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Jen1
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Gender: Female

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by Jen1 »

We deliver letters and we deliver parcels how about rather than doing it separately we do it at the same time as we’re going there anyway that would save money

Oh wait no that’s not what RM are proposing nope for some reason they feel it’s more cost effective to just deliver parcels and leave the letters even though we’re going there anyway

What the actual??? Who thinks that makes good business sense?
Mr Rush
Posts: 2913
Joined: 05 Aug 2011, 14:27
Gender: Male

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by Mr Rush »

postslippete wrote:
22 Sep 2023, 18:06
mail arriving in delivery offices is little to do with going green (its a convenient excuse) and everything about reducing costs.
Last week I happened to run across a Daily Mail article from 2008 fuming about the scrapping of the second delivery and thought something was very familiar...
Bizarrely, Royal Mail tried to pin the blame for the later deliveries on an EU directive which limits the speed large lorries, including those carrying post, can travel. It said the slowing of its lorries had meant moving back delivery times for all.
Lorries and the EU. Planes and the environment. If it wasn't those it would be something else.
The machine stops.
richietns
Posts: 1060
Joined: 17 Oct 2011, 18:09
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by richietns »

Mr Rush wrote:
22 Sep 2023, 23:46
postslippete wrote:
22 Sep 2023, 18:06
mail arriving in delivery offices is little to do with going green (its a convenient excuse) and everything about reducing costs.
Last week I happened to run across a Daily Mail article from 2008 fuming about the scrapping of the second delivery and thought something was very familiar...
Bizarrely, Royal Mail tried to pin the blame for the later deliveries on an EU directive which limits the speed large lorries, including those carrying post, can travel. It said the slowing of its lorries had meant moving back delivery times for all.
Lorries and the EU. Planes and the environment. If it wasn't those it would be something else.
Just like darren Jones said at the select Committee they blame everyone else but themselves.
postslippete
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by postslippete »

Jen1 wrote:
22 Sep 2023, 22:33
We deliver letters and we deliver parcels how about rather than doing it separately we do it at the same time as we’re going there anyway that would save money

Oh wait no that’s not what RM are proposing nope for some reason they feel it’s more cost effective to just deliver parcels and leave the letters even though we’re going there anyway

What the actual??? Who thinks that makes good business sense?

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen. The real game changer are these parcel hubs that RM have spent billions of pounds on. I believe that it is this that is pushing our start and finish times back because parcels are going to be arriving later in delivery offices. It's already happening on Sunday apparently with parcels arriving later.

It wouldn't be cost effective to have the mail arriving as it is now because once the mail is in our frames we would be sat waiting for the parcels to arrive. The business says it cares about the USO, but do you think it is really? It's all about the parcels and the company seem to be moving the whole network back to accommodate them.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
clashcityrocker
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by clashcityrocker »

postslippete wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 16:32

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen.
Why then do we have Dedicated Parcel Routes?
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Jen1
Posts: 231
Joined: 31 Oct 2018, 12:00
Gender: Female

Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by Jen1 »

clashcityrocker wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 17:05
postslippete wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 16:32

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen.
Why then do we have Dedicated Parcel Routes?
Exactly and they want to stop delivering letters on a Saturday and just deliver parcels

We tried that in our office during covid and it was absolute disaster due to the number of small tracked
dazzler123
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Joined: 11 Oct 2021, 17:36
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by dazzler123 »

Jen1 wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 19:33
clashcityrocker wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 17:05
postslippete wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 16:32

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen.
Why then do we have Dedicated Parcel Routes?
Exactly and they want to stop delivering letters on a Saturday and just deliver parcels

We tried that in our office during covid and it was absolute disaster due to the number of small tracked
Funny you mention that, i noticed this week a massive surge of tracked letters coming through. This is the next thing being thrown our way
postslippete
Posts: 4031
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by postslippete »

clashcityrocker wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 17:05
postslippete wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 16:32

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen.
Why then do we have Dedicated Parcel Routes?

Like I said clash its all about the parcels.


Dedicated parcel routes are the beginning of courier style delivery services like Amazon. My feeling is that it will take work away from workplaces and put them at risk of merger and closure. They won't ensure the USO and there will be an even further reduction of delivery workers.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Pidleypoo
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Re: General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

Post by Pidleypoo »

postslippete wrote:
24 Sep 2023, 06:53
clashcityrocker wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 17:05
postslippete wrote:
23 Sep 2023, 16:32

I don't think they want us to deliver the mail separately to the parcels Jen.
Why then do we have Dedicated Parcel Routes?

Like I said clash its all about the parcels.


Dedicated parcel routes are the beginning of courier style delivery services like Amazon. My feeling is that it will take work away from workplaces and put them at risk of merger and closure. They won't ensure the USO and there will be an even further reduction of delivery workers.
We have dprs in our office of about 130 deliveries, they were put in about 6 months ago.

They have been such a disaster with deliveries having been made far too big and the fact that we don’t have the staff for the dpr’s and can’t seem to employ anyone that they’re being removed next month.

It has not been uncommon for there to be 3-4 days worth of undelivered parcels and obviously massive amounts of mail.

Been such a great idea.