Update

[norris9]

Compulsory redundancies, Your work and you being replaced by owner drivers , agency and new employees on worse terms and conditions. Compulsory Sundays , All Deliveries starting no earlier than 08:00 and all innovative duty patterns removed , the increasing use of agency in RDCs and mail centres, the reduction in collections, annualised hours including no finishing times, Statuary sick pay for any absence other than your first absence per year. ( SSP is £98 per week ) and unacceptable and unworkable revisions.

What's the benefit of Royal Mail replacing us with agency workers? Don't they cost the company a lot more in wages due to also having to pay the agency itself? also, they likely don't know the routes/rounds.

Also, Agency and temporary workers are entitled to the same working conditions and pay as permanent, employed staff, according to the Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (AWR).

So they can't pay less than us and have worse terms and conditions than us? or can they....due to the fact Royal Mail's plan is to have new staff on lower pay and terms and conditions. So they can match agency workers to the new starts?



Who are agency workers anyway?....why would anyone be part of an agency instead of getting permanently employed somewhere? especially an agency worker being sent to Royal Mail where there are/were plenty of jobs, at least in the past years.

[Martin Walsh]

An alternative view to Acca and Murdoch who believe that Royal Mail are getting things their own way.

I don’t agree , for example you state they have removed the Pathway to Change Agreement, is this the same Pathway to change Agreement Simon has said that all revisions are based on in terms of their productivity targets. How are they going to take the equivalent of 10 thousand full time hours out without involvement of the CWU and it’s members ? Let’s face it last year even with the CWU cooperation a number of revisions were car crashes.

You said ACAS was somehow a win for Royal Mail ? We had lots of people thinking ACAS would insist on strikes before Christmas and yet we have already taken 2 days whilst in ACAS and will be naming others to replace the ones we stood down this week. The reason the delay in going to ACAS was the timing of the request at the same time as they announce 10 thousand job losses. ACAS are facilitating the talks they do not tell either party what they need to agree.

In terms of introductions of SISO. SISO is in every mail centre and RDC and has been for the best part of 12 months without any real issues. It’s introduction was agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement. The reasons why the CWU have not agreed SISO for Delivery Offices is that Royal Mail now want to use its outputs contrary to what Royal Mail agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement. They want to use it for resourcing and conduct. However let’s be honest they have not got the management capability to do this in all 1286 Delivery Units.

Reductions in overtime has always gone on in long disputes in the past and Royal Mail are clearly trying to starve people back to work.

However let’s be clear we have 115 thousand members on strike. Thompson is the most unpopular CEO we have ever had and we had a few options.

The Business cannot successfully introduce even part of their change agenda without the CWU and its members agreeing to either all or past of the change process.

In addition don’t think that Thompson and Royal Mail are not under huge pressure from Shareholders who want to make money not be embroiled in long running disputes which mean their return is compromised.

Whilst I am always the optimist, I do believe we will get a good agreement and yes there will be compromises along with it but it will not be what Royal Mail set out in the document Chris Kindly posted.

[rambo1]

So, are we now not on strike on Friday this week? It's all very confusing?
Did anyone see the bit in the Telegraph where simple Si says all posties will lose £2k if all strikes go ahead! He can't even do maths, mind you it goes on to say that the average, I stress, AVERAGE , postie with overtime and allowances, earns £30k a yr! Really!!! He really is out of touch and clueless.

My pay was 30k last year I don’t do any o/t a lot in my place do 30 hrs ot so I’m guessing they must be 40 k ish

So I guess you're lucky enough to get more money for doing the same job just because you happen to live in London, that doesn't make you the average for the country as a whole though.

Your maths is out too, if your colleagues were doing 30hrs a week o/t they'd be on nearer 50k+.

[mozilla]

Read the Q&A part for clarity...
I think you actually made comments on some of the proposed changes - as a regular contributor.

The CWU should not be economical with the truth! But I am almost convinced they are behaving like most Posties - not reading what is presented to them. They did acknowledge recently that they are now ready to negotiate on pay and terms,band are going through the changes proposed. Many months later mind!

The trouble I have with this is it says two different things ; in the red/yellow sheet it says first week of second period of sickness is at SSP and then in the Q&A section it says first three days . It would be helpful if they had a consistent answer as this doesn't inspire confidence that they even know what their policy is.

[norris9]

So I guess you're lucky enough to get more money for doing the same job just because you happen to live in London

How is that lucky - to get extra pay for being in London for doing the same job?. Have you not seen the difference in the cost of living between London and the vast majority of the country.

You'd pay off your mortgage far quicker in other areas of the country for doing the same job than you would in London / the South East.

In the South East you will probably have to work an extra 10 years+ as a Postie to get your mortgage paid off.


When I look at prices of houses across vast areas of the UK I am amazed by how cheap they are. £100,000 cheaper compared to where I live for the same amount of bedrooms. I need to move to another town - I'd be mortgage free by transferring.

[Dexydog]

In terms of introductions of SISO. SISO is in every mail centre and RDC and has been for the best part of 12 months without any real issues. It’s introduction was agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement. The reasons why the CWU have not agreed SISO for Delivery Offices is that Royal Mail now want to use its outputs contrary to what Royal Mail agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement.

That's funny, because my DO installed the SISO points weeks ago and we have been told told implementation is imminent.
I had this argument on here a few weeks back and was told the union HAD agreed to its' use, regardless of the ulterior motive pointed out here.
So which is it???
If it hasn't been agreed, why did our rep not put a disagreement in and put a stop to it?

My point isn't about the merits or otherwise about us/RM using it, but about the union's inability to stop things happening which haven't been agreed.
It's a slippery slope.

Martin, in the posted quote, before this you talk about RM needing the Pathway to Change to facilitate job losses- seems to me they can use whatever parts of it they like, do what they like, and there's sod all the union can do about it because its not legally binding; if it was we wouldn't be where we are now.

Honestly, I think the union need better lawyers.
And not be so quick to sign agreements that will later tie us up in knots.

[rambo1]

So I guess you're lucky enough to get more money for doing the same job just because you happen to live in London

How is that lucky - to get extra pay for being in London for doing the same job?. Have you not seen the difference in the cost of living between London and the vast majority of the country.

You'd pay off your mortgage far quicker in other areas of the country for doing the same job than you would in London / the South East.

In the South East you will probably have to work an extra 10 years+ as a Postie to get your mortgage paid off.


When I look at prices of houses across vast areas of the UK I am amazed by how cheap they are. £100,000 cheaper compared to where I live for the same amount of bedrooms. I need to move to another town - I'd be mortgage free by transferring.

my point exactly ,you're free to move where you want, and you'll be getting a pay cut when you do.

[Pidleypoo]

An alternative view to Acca and Murdoch who believe that Royal Mail are getting things their own way.

I don’t agree , for example you state they have removed the Pathway to Change Agreement, is this the same Pathway to change Agreement Simon has said that all revisions are based on in terms of their productivity targets. How are they going to take the equivalent of 10 thousand full time hours out without involvement of the CWU and it’s members ? Let’s face it last year even with the CWU cooperation a number of revisions were car crashes.

You said ACAS was somehow a win for Royal Mail ? We had lots of people thinking ACAS would insist on strikes before Christmas and yet we have already taken 2 days whilst in ACAS and will be naming others to replace the ones we stood down this week. The reason the delay in going to ACAS was the timing of the request at the same time as they announce 10 thousand job losses. ACAS are facilitating the talks they do not tell either party what they need to agree.

In terms of introductions of SISO. SISO is in every mail centre and RDC and has been for the best part of 12 months without any real issues. It’s introduction was agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement. The reasons why the CWU have not agreed SISO for Delivery Offices is that Royal Mail now want to use its outputs contrary to what Royal Mail agreed in the Pathway to Change Agreement. They want to use it for resourcing and conduct. However let’s be honest they have not got the management capability to do this in all 1286 Delivery Units.

Reductions in overtime has always gone on in long disputes in the past and Royal Mail are clearly trying to starve people back to work.

However let’s be clear we have 115 thousand members on strike. Thompson is the most unpopular CEO we have ever had and we had a few options.

The Business cannot successfully introduce even part of their change agenda without the CWU and its members agreeing to either all or past of the change process.

In addition don’t think that Thompson and Royal Mail are not under huge pressure from Shareholders who want to make money not be embroiled in long running disputes which mean their return is compromised.

Whilst I am always the optimist, I do believe we will get a good agreement and yes there will be compromises along with it but it will not be what Royal Mail set out in the document Chris Kindly posted.

Are you actually aware of what we want ? I say this because banking hours and especially commit to deliver will leave your members with untold amounts of bullying and harassment along with any type of outdoor performance standard.

[tractorboy2]

been in plenty of jobs, and this cwu union is the weakest union ive paid for to be a member hands down to represent its workers, inept,lack of ideas, they would rather laugh and slag off the royal mail while we are all losing money ,than actually do something to help its workers, what a waste of time this is, terms and conditions gone, later starts coming in for sure, ,

I would suggest the weakest union accolade goes to USDAW with the TGWU a close second.

[Martin Walsh]

Pidleypoo yes I know what we want and don’t want. We are certainly not going to agree no finishing times and Royal Mail’s annualised and flexi hours approach.

However in rejecting what they want we all have to recognise that traffic is not the same 52 weeks per year. Remember if you have the same amount of hours when traffic is lower as you do when it is higher your productivity drops and therefore lasping / absorption increases to plug that productivity drop.

Therefore if we don’t want annualised hours / no finishing times or banking then we have address the fundamental issue which is if you have 30 walks when traffic is high , do you need 30 walks in the summer when traffic is less ?

Remember Royal Mail are totally obsessed with PDA OA data they have annualised the summer PDA OA with the winter and that is why they have come up with their unacceptable plan.

However in making sure we defeat their annualised hours plan we have to also find a solution to the fact that traffic drops in the summer and therefore how do we plug the drop in productivity without unacceptable absorption levels.

[derekm]

Thompson must have a right laugh if he comes on here and sees all the bickering. someone said this morning he put a clip up about it but was quickly taken down don't know if it was workplace or some other site he uses

[wacko74]

Hopefully posties will now finally realise that the union are in no way acting in the best interests of it's members.

All the union is interested in is keeping it's membership as high as possible so it can keep troughing on all the unearned income from membership subs, the union either don't care or don't understand about the long term viability of the business that employs those sub paying members.

Officially the 6 day letters USO isn't even on the agenda yet, but you can guarantee once it does come up for debate the union will be screaming blue murder about retaining it and the ''service'' it provides, even though any idiot can see it's now hugely uneconomical and inefficient.

Again all the union are interested in is keeping as many jobs as possible to preserve the income from membership subs, even though vast numbers of posties would welcome the opportunity to take VR in the event of any downsizing of the workforce due to a reduction in the USO

[richietns]

Hopefully posties will now finally realise that the union are in no way acting in the best interests of it's members.

All the union is interested in is keeping it's membership as high as possible so it can keep troughing on all the unearned income from membership subs, the union either don't care or don't understand about the long term viability of the business that employs those sub paying members.

Officially the 6 day letters USO isn't even on the agenda yet, but you can guarantee once it does come up for debate the union will be screaming blue murder about retaining it and the ''service'' it provides, even though any idiot can see it's now hugely uneconomical and inefficient.

Again all the union are interested in is keeping as many jobs as possible to preserve the income from membership subs, even though vast numbers of posties would welcome the opportunity to take VR in the event of any downsizing of the workforce due to a reduction in the USO

I disagree they have kept terms and conditions really good,you just have to look at the gig economy parcel companies who have no union.

[Dexydog]

Pidleypoo yes I know what we want and don’t want. We are certainly not going to agree no finishing times and Royal Mail’s annualised and flexi hours approach.

However in rejecting what they want we all have to recognise that traffic is not the same 52 weeks per year. Remember if you have the same amount of hours when traffic is lower as you do when it is higher your productivity drops and therefore lasping / absorption increases to plug that productivity drop.

Therefore if we don’t want annualised hours / no finishing times or banking then we have address the fundamental issue which is if you have 30 walks when traffic is high , do you need 30 walks in the summer when traffic is less ?

Remember Royal Mail are totally obsessed with PDA OA data they have annualised the summer PDA OA with the winter and that is why they have come up with their unacceptable plan.

However in making sure we defeat their annualised hours plan we have to also find a solution to the fact that traffic drops in the summer and therefore how do we plug the drop in productivity without unacceptable absorption levels.

Lapsing was RM's idea to plug the less traffic in summer issue.
What's wrong with just keeping that?- you have some time, you can do another loop (or two). If you don't have time, you don't.
That's a management issue- how they arrive at the conclusion of who has time and who doesn't is the problem.
If they want to use àny means at their disposal to do that will most likely happen.
Let's not confuse that with annualised hours- one issue has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

[postslippete]

However in rejecting what they want we all have to recognise that traffic is not the same 52 weeks per year. Remember if you have the same amount of hours when traffic is lower as you do when it is higher your productivity drops and therefore lasping / absorption increases to plug that productivity drop.

That's understandable and in many offices even though it's unpopular it can still be workable

What really doesn't make sense to anybody is the idea of annualised hours whereby the company changes a postie's hours in winter so that they are forced to work 42 hours for just 37 hours pay. That, on top of later starts and finishes is a big red flag for many of us. And now that they can monitor us via our PDAs and siso. Its really not something I'm prepared to agree to.

Sunday working I might be prepared to accept on the same terms as what was offered to management. At least another 5.5% pay increase and a £1k bonus