General Secretary Dave Ward on the universal service obligation.

[LouBarlow]

Government have said no again
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=111333&p=1074028

There is no way they would remove the USO completely as it gives the company basically permission to never deliver anything that is ‘cost defective’. Anything that costs them money can be sat on your frame indefinitely if it isn’t making money for RM, which no government is going to approve.

[SpacePhoenix]

Government have said no again
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=111333&p=1074028

There is no way they would remove the USO completely as it gives the company basically permission to never deliver anything that is ‘cost defective’. Anything that costs them money can be sat on your frame indefinitely if it isn’t making money for RM, which no government is going to approve.

Long term I think letters will go down to once a week, maybe twice a week at most

[Woody Guthrie]

The government were always going to say no.
It is a Tory government in its final days.
Why make an unpopular decision when you can kick it down the road and let the next mob deal with it.

[Acca Dacca]

The government were always going to say no.
It is a Tory government in its final days.
Why make an unpopular decision when you can kick it down the road and let the next mob deal with it.

What makes it an unpopular decision when we are being told the public dont need, care or want for a 6 day USO anymore and that cutting the USO is the only way Royal Mail can be sustainable in the future?

[LouBarlow]

The government were always going to say no.
It is a Tory government in its final days.
Why make an unpopular decision when you can kick it down the road and let the next mob deal with it.

What makes it an unpopular decision when we are being told the public dont need, care or want for a 6 day USO anymore and that cutting the USO is the only way Royal Mail can be sustainable in the future?

Tories have a base that is made up of gammons and old people. They are traditionalists and will see the dismantling of Royal Mail as a bad thing, and it could cost the government votes. They will need all they can get at the next election. It doesn’t make any sense to upset their core voting group at this stage.

[Acca Dacca]

The government were always going to say no.
It is a Tory government in its final days.
Why make an unpopular decision when you can kick it down the road and let the next mob deal with it.

What makes it an unpopular decision when we are being told the public dont need, care or want for a 6 day USO anymore and that cutting the USO is the only way Royal Mail can be sustainable in the future?

Tories have a base that is made up of gammons and old people. They are traditionalists and will see the dismantling of Royal Mail as a bad thing, and it could cost the government votes. They will need all they can get at the next election. It doesn’t make any sense to upset their core voting group at this stage.

''gammons and old people'' combined form a pretty considerable percentage of England's population

If ''gammons and old people'' want a 6 day USO then the line that most of the population dont care about the USO being cut doesnt wash

Besides, the angle Royal Mail ( and now the CWU ) are going for is that essentially there needs to be change in order for Royal Mail to have any sort of bright future - some could argue that denying the request is putting Royal Mail in jeopardy which if you are to be believed, would upset the 'gammons and old people' even more than knocking off Saturday letters.

Is the decision not up to parliament anyway rather than government? Parliament isnt just the Tories. I am fairly sure the legislation needs to go through the full parliamentary process rather than just the Tories deciding to agree to RM's request.

[postslippete]

Is the decision not up to parliament anyway rather than government? Parliament isnt just the Tories. I am fairly sure the legislation needs to go through the full parliamentary process rather than just the Tories deciding to agree to RM's request.

I do wonder if people understand the difference between parliament and the government! Probably the same people that don't understand what confirmation bias actually is....

Kate Osborne is a Labour MP for Jarrow. Before being elected she was employed by Royal Mail for 25 years and worked as a Union negotiator. She also supports the retention of the USO's 6 day a week delivery service. Any changes to the USO would be for parliament to agree and the majority have agreed not to reduce the USO.

[Mr Rush]

They are traditionalists and will see the dismantling of Royal Mail as a bad thing, and it could cost the government votes.

The old tension within the Conservative party: landed gentry who want to conserve things as they are versus nouveau-riche wide boys who take a wrecking ball to society for a buck. But they hate the other guys more than each other.

[Shadedpostie]

They are going to say no because the problem isn't that letters are declining. The problem is that the company is continuing to lose its targets on USO six day service when there's still money on the damn table to be made from the thing. It's baffling that we're all working for a company that is deciding to outrightly give up on one aspect of the service for another. This is bare in mind the former point being they had the commitment first to the USO before all this parcel nonsense.

So of course OFCOM isn't in any rush to give them what they want. It's the equivalent of turning around to a gambling addict and being like, "Oh hey, it sucks that you've lost all your money, here's an extra thousand pounds! Go nuts!" It's enabling this s**t and it baffles my why the union are even championing this as well. What becomes of this I dunno.

If anything, they turn around to those higher up that are making these dumb decisions and fine them. Take it straight outta their pockets not the company, then they'll probably think twice cuz we already know about their little incentives to delivering the parcels in the select committee and not the letters. Again, whether OFCOM follows through with an appropriate punishment for this cluster f**k I dunno.

[Woody Guthrie]

I do wonder if people understand the difference between parliament and the government! Probably the same people that don't understand what confirmation bias actually is....

There you go with the arrogant assumption that you're smarter than others again.

The Statutory Instrument required to change the USO would need to be introduced by a Tory Minister of the Crown so it doesn't matter whether people talk about government or parliament if the Tories are unwilling to entertain the idea.

[LouBarlow]

Is the decision not up to parliament anyway rather than government? Parliament isnt just the Tories. I am fairly sure the legislation needs to go through the full parliamentary process rather than just the Tories deciding to agree to RM's request.

The tories are the majority party in all strata of parliament though.

[Acca Dacca]

Is the decision not up to parliament anyway rather than government? Parliament isnt just the Tories. I am fairly sure the legislation needs to go through the full parliamentary process rather than just the Tories deciding to agree to RM's request.

The tories are the majority party in all strata of parliament though.

Not all MPs are obliged to vote along party lines though ( as you’ll be aware when Corbyn was a Labour MP ) and it could be a free vote with no expectation to go with the whip

There would be Labour MPs supporting it and Tory MPs against

It would, but I’m not 100 percent on this, likely need to go through the House of Lords too if it was a bill

I’m still not convinced this is seen as a unpopular decision anyway - still no solid argument why it is if we are to believe the reasons why the USO being cut wouldn’t be unpopular with the public

After all, parliament did decide to privatise the Royal Mail

Woody has argued it is needed
Dave Ward has argued it is needed
RM has argued it is needed
Ofcom seems to be in agreement change is needed
And we are told the majority of the general public wouldn’t care if letters went down to 5 days a week ( or even less )

So what makes it unpopular?

Going by the above, the unpopular decision is refusing any changes

Old traditional Tory voters are not going to vote Labour because there are no letters on a Saturday and while most of them have seen the state of Royal Mail the past few years running as it is

It’s not a hard sell to spin it as a positive step that means The Royal Mail survives and is competitive going forward

In my opinion it’s nothing to do with it being unpopular but more to do with Royal Mail’s arguments for it falling under scrutiny

[postieblueshirt]

In lamens terms it's a manufactured decline and everyone knows it.Its out in the open now but we have all witnessed it over the last few years.The select committee couldn't do anything but did bring to light what was going on

[Woody Guthrie]

In lamens terms it's a manufactured decline and everyone knows it.

The largest reduction in mail has come in the Business to Customer sector.

Banks.
Utilities.
Legal.
Councils.
Even the NHS.
All kinds of business.

As these all have access to DSA and are not subject to price manipulation the truth is technology is driving the bulk of that decline not Royal Mail. I haven't had a bank statement, a phone or utility bill or even a letter from the doctor in years.

In the past two weeks I've had two pieces of D2D, a pension statement and a small catalogue from Mountain Warehouse.

Yes, Royal Mail is attempting to price stamped 1st class mail out of the system but that represents a tiny fraction of the mail we deliver... or don't any more.

We need to face reality.

One of the main drivers for later starts is that flying what little first class stamped mail we still have to every corner of the country is no longer financially sustainable, it's nothing to do with a sudden urge to be green and everything to do with too many flights with too little potential revenue on them.

That is only going to get worse as 1st class stamped mail continues to decline and that move from air to road and rail is going to have a detrimental affect on our members.

Had we pushed for a change to the USO regarding 1st class stamped mail earlier perhaps we could have avoided that.

If Royal Mail moving to a 5 day USO means the business can make savings that it will otherwise come at our members for that is something we have to consider.

[Hyrrokkin]

I do wonder if people understand the difference between parliament and the government! Probably the same people that don't understand what confirmation bias actually is....

There you go with the arrogant assumption that you're smarter than others again.

The Statutory Instrument required to change the USO would need to be introduced by a Tory Minister of the Crown so it doesn't matter whether people talk about government or parliament if the Tories are unwilling to entertain the idea.

Pot,kettle etc etc