LTB 201/23 - Recruitment Drive - New Entrants in Royal Mail Group

[Tman]

You think that campaign would make the Banks, Utilities, Councils etc etc suddenly go back to the expense of sending letters after years of paperless emails?

[Woody Guthrie]

You think that campaign would make the Banks, Utilities, Councils etc etc suddenly go back to the expense of sending letters after years of paperless emails?

It would be an interesting campaign from a company and union that are pretty much paperless themselves now.

There's more chance of Woolworths making a comeback.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Maybe most of you don’t remember but the majority of members did not want to be compelled to work Sundays and do Dedicated parcels later in the day.

Once the union achieve this , the reality is that Royal Mail were going to introduce a new workforce to do the growth areas which the existing workforce did not want to do.

Royal Mail due to their financial problems have paused until next year the roll out of tracked 48 on Sundays which will massively increase volumes on a Sunday and decrease volumes in delivery units on the. Monday.

During the talks Royal Mail were willing to commit to the levelling up of new entrants contracts the discussion was about at what stage , Royal Mail want 5 , the CWU wanted less. However it was only when Royal Mail revealed that they would not be in the new pension scheme for that period of 5 years which led to the review in the agreement of the new entrants.

Royal Mail wanted them in a DC scheme and then transfer them after 5 years into the new CDC scheme which is due to come in early next year. The pension experts said this would create real problems with the new CDC scheme if significant numbers all tip into the scheme at the same time.

This is why the new agreement says they will be a joint review of new entrants terms and conditions and we want to improve them significantly as it is classic gig economy style with no paid meal reliefs , total flexibility meaning even if they are a 25 hour contract they can work up to 2080 hours over 12 months equalling 40 hours per week.

The CWU have never agreed these contracts. We have agreed and Royal Mail originally position was they did not to have the new entrants subject to collective bargaining.

So the joint working group will review and look at these contracts. The retention of new entrants will obviously force a review in any case.


However here is the problem unless the existing workforce wants to be made to work on Sundays and move to 11-7 Dedicated parcels duty them the only alternative workforce is new entrants with working Sundays and DPRs in their contracts or owner drivers. The current agency staff working Sundays and On DPRs are costing Royal Mail a fortune.

So the union has agreed to review the new entrants and we may even look at a new grade to ensure that the growth in the future which will in the main come from Sundays and larger parcels are delivered by Royal Mail staff and not owner drivers.

Remember we have different grades now , Area Distribution, network drivers are different grades and we have had different grades in the past ie PHGs.

I know many that would take these sort of roles if the company were willing to be more flexible with their attendance patterns.
You may not get many takers on a 1 over 6 but four day weeks or even three day weeks that cover Sat and Sun would be more appealing to the current workforce.
I see no evidence currently of the company being flexible with these shift patterns.
Not many people want to work till seven on a Sat.
But if you had one Saturday in three off and/or three/four days off in the week they would probably be oversubscribed.
Their hesitance makes people believe they would rather employ a new workforce to do this work.
Can more pressure not be put on them to be more flexible?

[Woody Guthrie]

Maybe most of you don’t remember but the majority of members did not want to be compelled to work Sundays and do Dedicated parcels later in the day.

Nobody can be compelled to work a Sunday.
Even if there had been a collective agreement around working Sundays it would have to have come with an individual opt out option to be lawful.

Members could not have easily been forced onto late shift DPR routes either without it getting very messy legally for the business.

So what did the union actually achieve with regards to this particular point?

What the reality on the ground actually looks like is this, we know have members doing exactly the same work as us on poorer terms and conditions, although they have the capacity to work DPR hours and Sundays we can't afford to use them for that because we need them desperately in the core delivery function because we're so chronically short staffed.

The DPR and Sunday work is still being done on overtime or by volunteers.

Worst of all worlds isn't it?

[scotchy1962]

There's no way out of this now, the die is cast, and maybe just maybe the people who cover f/t duties will finally get their hours made up and anyone like me will get theirs dropped down.
I have been listening to the dom/com/whatever you call them going on about how once the dispute is settled it will all get sorted, still waiting. I think a grievance has now been put in by the rep in a attempt to get some movement on this.
I always love the way they blame somebody higher up the food chain for any problems, in my eyes the buck stops with them.
The future entrants know what they are signing up to, its time to get us posties sorted so we can all move on and i can get a step closer to retirement.

[Geordiepapa]

Trying desperately to justify the CWU's actions but failing miserably with a lot of the workforce now. Admit it Martin, the CWU have no clout now.

Are you in the union?


Yes and have been for 32 years and have always supported them until now - you in the union?

[dazzler123]

We need an honest and factual debate on whether the USO is reduced to 5 days

made me chuckle. Many in our office get their mail maybe 3 times a week now and nobody bats an eyelid, bar pissed off customers actually wanting their mail

[LouBarlow]

Yes and have been for 32 years and have always supported them until now - you in the union?

Yes. I find it odd that you would turn on them at this point having been a member for so long. It is fine to be critical of them, as I am in some regards, but we are definitely better off with them than without.

[Clappedoutpostie]

Maybe most of you don’t remember but the majority of members did not want to be compelled to work Sundays and do Dedicated parcels later in the day.

We didn’t wanted dedicated parcel routes either, we wanted them to stay on core to compensate for RM letting letters “wither on the vine”.

[postslippete]

We need an honest and factual debate on whether the USO is reduced to 5 days.

Remember the core delivery duties in the future will only deliver letters , flats and small parcels. Letters will continue to decline.

When we supported the 6 day USO , it was at that stage moving one day would lose significant amount of jobs. This has potentially changed as we are now losing jobs by spreading the declining letters over 6 days rather than over 5.

If the Saturday is removed from the USO as Royal Mail want , Saturday and Sundays will still have significant volumes of parcels/ tracked delivered on them days.

However Monday’s will become the heaviest core delivery day. W
Lots of work to be done to work this through and the government will ultimately decide.

However if you don’t change your mind when the situation changes than you are not trying to resolve the problems we face.

From next year all large parcels will be delivered later from the 346 delivery Hubs , this will mean that the core delivery will have less work to perform and spreading that over 6 days is going to potentially loss more jobs in the long run.

The UK are the only delivery service in Europe which has a 6 day USO , most are 5 days but places like Belgium have moved to 3 day USO.

So you asked the question why are we discussing the USO and I have try to answer and this is going to be a massive debate.

Martin

It's best not to talk in riddles. How are we losing jobs by spreading the declining letters over 6 days rather than 5? There was already a 10,000 reduction in staff from last year, postage prices have gone up 16% and extending deliveries by revisions have made many duties unworkable meaning that we are currently failing the USO on a daily basis. I'm not against a 5 day USO if Royal Mail are able to maintain quality of service but a Monday to Friday letter delivery service gives us even less days in which to deliver the mail and there are already less staff to deliver it.

Maybe having all large parcels being delivered by dedicated parcel routes will help but so will putting duties back in that management have taken out via haphazard revisions. The biggest concern that I have is that this Union leadership seems to be positively bipolar and changes its mind more frequent than our missus changes her knickers. And sometimes it's not the people who change, but the mask that falls off. I distinctly recall Ricky McAuley arguing the case for a 5 day USO and even mentioning that some countries have a 3 day USO..... Whilst mail might be declining overall, some of the letters that we deliver like NHS appointments, bank cards and passports are absolutely vital for people. How do we ensure that it's not being pushed aside in the company's request for bigger profits?

[Kenfandango]

You think that campaign would make the Banks, Utilities, Councils etc etc suddenly go back to the expense of sending letters after years of paperless emails?

It would be an interesting campaign from a company and union that are pretty much paperless themselves now.

There's more chance of Woolworths making a comeback.

I think a campaign could boost a lucrative revenue stream that royal mail has a complete monopoly over, and the infrastructure in place already. Instead of forking out money to become yet another indistinguishable parcel company

[Dogbone1510]

Haha I'm a trainer if the CWU think I'm mentioning anything about the union they can think again after the shafting we've had!!!

[denhamhoop]

This seems desperate. Why would any new starter join a union that views them as second class workers? I wouldn’t want to be in charge of union strategy right now, as it must be a fine balancing act trying to appease old members while trying to entice new.

Tut Lou they are not second class citizens you forget the current work force who are the second class citizens new entrants will be third/cattle truck class citizens whilst CWU leaders are travelling in first class(with management) enjoying their champagne and canapes whilst playing their violins as Rome burns behind them