Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

[LouBarlow]

you have no real argument except vote "Yes"

There are plenty of coherent arguments for voting yes or no.

The consequences of a yes vote are laid out in the 30 odd pages of the agreement.

All I've read from most on here and social media is this deal is shite, vote no.

What's actually missing from the debate is a coherent plan for how we deal with the aftermath of a no vote or even any acceptance that there will be any consequences.

Given that both sides of the negotiations feel they have gone as far as they can and admit it or not the business is in a mess..

If you're proposing to vote no... what do you think will happen next?

You are wasting your time Woody. I have asked him multiple times what he believes will be achieved by voting no, as I have others here, but all you get in response is incoherent ramblings and insults. The scary thing is people like him have as much of a say as people who choose to educate themselves before voting, which is probably why this country is in as much of a mess as it is. Gotta love democracy.

[Burghboy]

you have no real argument except vote "Yes"

There are plenty of coherent arguments for voting yes or no.

The consequences of a yes vote are laid out in the 30 odd pages of the agreement.

All I've read from most on here and social media is this deal is shite, vote no.

What's actually missing from the debate is a coherent plan for how we deal with the aftermath of a no vote or even any acceptance that there will be any consequences.

Given that both sides of the negotiations feel they have gone as far as they can and admit it or not the business is in a mess..

If you're proposing to vote no... what do you think will happen next?

You are wasting your time Woody. I have asked him multiple times what he believes will be achieved by voting no, as I have others here, but all you get in response is incoherent ramblings and insults. The scary thing is people like him have as much of a say as people who choose to educate themselves before voting, which is probably why this country is in as much of a mess as it is. Gotta love democracy.

Comical, you say you educated yourself on what a No vote would mean yet you then speculate and scaremonger, I’ve been to briefings in Birmingham and Glasgow and it’s very clear that the negotiators don’t know what will be the outcome of a No vote so am not sure why you believe you do.

Dave Ward in Glasgow stated ‘The regulator Ofcom are after RM for their miss management of the USO and deliberate failure’ he also said ‘the Govt are after RM for their deliberate miss management of the USO and Parliamentary Committee mistruths’ and it’s very clear the public are not happy with the service and treatment of the Postal workers.

So with all this support is now not the time to fight take action and put the ball in RM’s court by telling them this deal is not acceptable?

[LouBarlow]

Comical, you say you educated yourself on what a No vote would mean yet you then speculate and scaremonger, I’ve been to briefings in Birmingham and Glasgow and it’s very clear that the negotiators don’t know what will be the outcome of a No vote so am not sure why you believe you do.

Dave Ward in Glasgow stated ‘The regulator Ofcom are after RM for their miss management of the USO and deliberate failure’ he also said ‘the Govt are after RM for their deliberate miss management of the USO and Parliamentary Committee mistruths’ and it’s very clear the public are not happy with the service and treatment of the Postal workers.

So with all this support is now not the time to fight take action and put the ball in RM’s court by telling them this deal is not acceptable?

Nobody can predict the future with certainty, but I prefer an educated guess than pure speculation. The fact that we just returned a unanimous strike vote, yet the union refused to call one, leads to the logic that they will not call any going forward. The reason being, they have seen the financial state of the company, as rammed home by the news of record losses this morning, and realise that the deal presented is as good as it is going to get.

Frankly, for them to get any kind of pay increase out of the mess that is Royal Mail right now, looks increasingly like some Herculean achievement in itself. Voting No does not improve either the working conditions for you and I or indeed the stability of the company we work for. No agreements in place leaves us open to even more drastic changes being brought in as there is no framework set out on paper for them to adhere to. It isn’t scaremongering. People need to wake up ne realise that the job that we all had in the past is gone. It will never be as good as it was.

[77SAMPOST77]

Comical, you say you educated yourself on what a No vote would mean yet you then speculate and scaremonger, I’ve been to briefings in Birmingham and Glasgow and it’s very clear that the negotiators don’t know what will be the outcome of a No vote so am not sure why you believe you do.

Dave Ward in Glasgow stated ‘The regulator Ofcom are after RM for their miss management of the USO and deliberate failure’ he also said ‘the Govt are after RM for their deliberate miss management of the USO and Parliamentary Committee mistruths’ and it’s very clear the public are not happy with the service and treatment of the Postal workers.

So with all this support is now not the time to fight take action and put the ball in RM’s court by telling them this deal is not acceptable?

Nobody can predict the future with certainty, but I prefer an educated guess than pure speculation. The fact that we just returned a unanimous strike vote, yet the union refused to call one, leads to the logic that they will not call any going forward. The reason being, they have seen the financial state of the company, as rammed home by the news of record losses this morning, and realise that the deal presented is as good as it is going to get.

Frankly, for them to get any kind of pay increase out of the mess that is Royal Mail right now, looks increasingly like some Herculean achievement in itself. Voting No does not improve either the working conditions for you and I or indeed the stability of the company we work for. No agreements in place leaves us open to even more drastic changes being brought in as there is no framework set out on paper for them to adhere to. It isn’t scaremongering. People need to wake up ne realise that the job that we all had in the past is gone. It will never be as good as it was.

Lou can see into the future and it is always bad news ,

He is never positive , never hopeful , his glass is always half empty ,

Ignore him .

[LouBarlow]

Lou can see into the future and it is always bad news ,

He is never positive , never hopeful , his glass is always half empty ,

Ignore him .

Yes, ignore me by directly quoting me. Another intellectual titan.

I am indeed negative about the future, because there is nothing to be positive about. We have a s**t deal which I am reluctantly voting for, as to not have an agreement in place is pretty much the nuclear option in comparison. We have a company in terminal decline after 10 years of being milked since privatisation, and union members fighting amongst themselves.

Feel free to offer something bright to look forward to in this industry. Cheer me up.

[77SAMPOST77]

Lou can see into the future and it is always bad news ,

He is never positive , never hopeful , his glass is always half empty ,

Ignore him .

Yes, ignore me by directly quoting me. Another intellectual titan.

I am indeed negative about the future, because there is nothing to be positive about. We have a s**t deal which I am reluctantly voting for, as to not have an agreement in place is pretty much the nuclear option in comparison. We have a company in terminal decline after 10 years of being milked since privatisation, and union members fighting amongst themselves.

Feel free to offer something bright to look forward to in this industry. Cheer me up.

You are past cheering up if you are sad enough to vote yes to this pathetic agreement .

[sixfoottwo]

You wouldn't want LouBarlow in the trenches with you would you.

[Valentina@1]

This Lou character seem like a CWU/RM plant to me,I’d rather die standing up,than live on my knees,this so called “deal” stinks,there’s not 1 delivery person in my office that’s voting yes.
This gonna be at least 80% no vote

[LouBarlow]

This Lou character seem like a CWU/RM plant to me,I’d rather die standing up,than live on my knees,this so called “deal” stinks,there’s not 1 delivery person in my office that’s voting yes.
This gonna be at least 80% no vote

Yes they put me in deep undercover back in 2007 in case this very scenario came up 15 years later. I like the slogans that are being offered up though ‘I’d rather die standing up’, ‘wouldn’t want him in the trenches’. Any more cliches appreciated. We haven’t had a ‘we shall fight them on the beaches’ for a while on here. That is a classic.

[Woody Guthrie]

It's strange that the same guys who are slagging off the CWU and accusing people of being CWU plants are calling for more strikes.

Who is going to organise these strikes?

Dave said a lot of things in Glasgow and one of the things he did say was that further industrial action would be an act of self harm putting the business and therefore all our jobs at real risk.

Given that the entire top table of the CWU supports this agreement and the PEC endorsed this agreement who is going to be left standing to take us to the gate?

A bunch of keyboard warriors?

[LouBarlow]

Spot on.

[redlen]

If the results of any ballot return a rejection from the members, then surely the CWU executive have to respect that ballot and go back to Royal Mail and fight for a better option, even if they do not agree?

Exactly what happened with the RCN and their current dispute?

The CWU is the membership acting on the wishes of that membership.

[77SAMPOST77]

If the results of any ballot return a rejection from the members, then surely the CWU executive have to respect that ballot and go back to Royal Mail and fight for a better option, even if they do not agree?

Exactly what happened with the RCN and their current dispute?

The CWU is the membership acting on the wishes of that membership.

True , too many people on here waving the white flag ,

We need to fight against this pathetic sell out deal .

[sindba]

It's strange that the same guys who are slagging off the CWU and accusing people of being CWU plants are calling for more strikes.

Who is going to organise these strikes?

Dave said a lot of things in Glasgow and one of the things he did say was that further industrial action would be an act of self harm putting the business and therefore all our jobs at real risk.

Given that the entire top table of the CWU supports this agreement and the PEC endorsed this agreement who is going to be left standing to take us to the gate?

A bunch of keyboard warriors?

Well, personally I haven't slagged the CWU off. I'm a paying member by choice, after all.

BUT I will definitely vote no.

I'm being asked to vote on what's in front of me, and that's a dreadful, completely unacceptable agreement.

What happens after a no vote is not on the ballot paper, and is above my pay grade grade.

[Woody Guthrie]

If the results of any ballot return a rejection from the members, then surely the CWU executive have to respect that ballot and go back to Royal Mail and fight for a better option, even if they do not agree?

In another thread Dave and Andy are being described as clowns and muppets and on this thread anyone who believes it's the wrong move to reject the deal is accused of waving the white flag. .

Since the PEC also believe that this is an acceptable deal they must also be clowns and muppets waving the white flag.

Are you suggesting we send these people back into the room to negotiate a better deal?

With what exactly?
A comely smile and a packet of custard creams?

Reality Check.
There isn't a significantly better deal in the room that would be worth the risk of a game of Russian Roulette with our jobs.