RMCtv: More reward for more change - A new two-year offer worth 9%

[ninja22]

They're going to be on 40 hours contract, 5 over 7, but taking home a very similar wage to the part timers that are on a 30 hour contract now.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

They are employed on 40 hours. It is on another thread here. The differences also highlighted in a table.

I should also add that the jobs on newer terms were being advertised before the announcement yesterday. It is here somewhere on this forum

Two tiered workforce will just create division moving forward. With such an inferior hourly pay rate we will be in danger in future disputes on pay.
Also how long before our paid breaks are gone like the newbies.
There will be incentive created to move the old contracts out of the job. This could increase bullying and unfair dismissals when conducted.
It is a race to the bottom. It has been a race to the bottom for a while with these other firms denying any basic workers rights.
Once these inferior contracts are sown into the fabric of Royal Mail it's game over anyway.
Healthy to have alternate views and appreciate some of your comments on need for change, but to think they will stop with this is naive.
We will lose it all eventually....
Two tiered workforce makes it harder for any union to affectively negotiate.
Somethings are worth fighting for.
This is what most colleagues I know agree on.
I'm not even sure their model will be more efficient. Given van drivers numerous postcodes in a busy urban area is very time consuming.
Given oversized to posties normal rounds is a much better method in my opinion.
I have done both.... LATs when covering a busy area over 3 - 4 postcodes take forever.
Not to mention the traffic problems and productivity problems delivering in the dark....
It's bad for the customer, the company, and ultimately the workforce.
Senior management count pounds saved using PDAs and computer analysis.
Deep down they haven't got a scooby how to run this company because they don't understand the logistics of the job.

[Acca Dacca]

They're going to be on 40 hours contract, 5 over 7, but taking home a very similar wage to the part timers that are on a 30 hour contract now.

It’s based on a 40’hour week pro rata as has been said

Will likely be 29 or 30 hour contracts based on pro rata of a 40 hour week rather than 37. So less than a current part timer who’s pay is based as a percentage of 37 hours.

[norris9]

People are celebrating the new starts pay and hours and overtime rates?

They are going to be working a 40 hour week as far as I can see. They will be getting paid approx £1.04 less an hour, with no outer London weighting, no paid breaks. Will they even be offered a pension like ours?


At the end of the day - This doesn't affect me and the rest of us - so should we care that they are going to be employing people on less pay and terms?......


Well, the worrying thing is - will they try to get rid of the rest of us any way they can - any error at work and we get sacked - so they can bring in cheaper labour?

[aiden01]

There is no door to door payment anymore

[Mickeybrowneyes]

People are celebrating the new starts pay and hours and overtime rates?

They are going to be working a 40 hour week as far as I can see. They will be getting paid approx £1.04 less an hour, with no outer London weighting, no paid breaks. Will they even be offered a pension like ours?


At the end of the day - This doesn't affect me and the rest of us - so should we care that they are going to be employing people on less pay and terms?......


Well, the worrying thing is - will they try to get rid of the rest of us any way they can - any error at work and we get sacked - so they can bring in cheaper labour?

Of course they will...
Be wilful delay accusations thrown around left right and centre.
At the same time managers cancelling overtime and leaving mail in frames..
Shocking how this job has deteriosed so quickly

[Minischoles]

How can you have a two tier office some people with childcare issues can finish early and everyone else can work later thats never going to happen

It already happens, maybe not in delivery but it's rife across CE - people on legacy contracts and 'family friendly' contracts (that aren't offered to anyone anymore) that mean they finish significantly earlier than more recent hires (we're talking some people finishing at 2-3pm compared to 6pm and 8pm finishes, as well as not having to work Saturdays)

Everyone arguing that they can't bring in a two tier workforce, they already have - it just happened in the smaller areas of the business so the CWU didn't give two sh***s and let it happen, to now turn around and cry outrage when it starts affecting deliveries.

The steps they're taking now were just a logical progression of what's already been happening - it started with different working days, then different working hours - now it's going to go even further to include Sundays and to implement different pay rates.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

How can you have a two tier office some people with childcare issues can finish early and everyone else can work later thats never going to happen

It already happens, maybe not in delivery but it's rife across CE - people on legacy contracts and 'family friendly' contracts (that aren't offered to anyone anymore) that mean they finish significantly earlier than more recent hires (we're talking some people finishing at 2-3pm compared to 6pm and 8pm finishes, as well as not having to work Saturdays)

Everyone arguing that they can't bring in a two tier workforce, they already have - it just happened in the smaller areas of the business so the CWU didn't give two sh***s and let it happen, to now turn around and cry outrage when it starts affecting deliveries.

The steps they're taking now were just a logical progression of what's already been happening - it started with different working days, then different working hours - now it's going to go even further to include Sundays and to implement different pay rates.

Different having a range of attendance times to having different pay grades and losing paid breaks...

In a few years they may catch up to our payrate and we will probably lose our breaks. We won't be getting much of a raise while they linger behind us.
Any union votes put to members will be watered down as they will not have the same benefits as us...
It's the beginning of the end if they accept this and I back them for making this a red line.

Also how long before they sell all the fleet and tell us we have to use our own cars as well....

They are hellbent in turning us into a gig economy model and this would be the beginning of them getting their way.

[employee1]

What a rubbish pay offer...no thanks.
More industrial action is needed. They're not taking this seriously.
Pathway to change agreement ripped up.
...also 10,000 existing employees potentially redundant, yet talking about hiring new people on different contracts.
Everything about this is unacceptable.

[chrisj]

Mickey brown: this is not just me or your close colleagues. It is about the collective,! It does not matter how great your argument or mine is, the reality is that Royal Mail is a PLC and these companies are run by those appointed to run the company not the workers or the Union.

Whether they get it wrong or not is beyond my pay grade - it happens all the time. Even a Prime Minister can get things so wrong...

People should stop having a go at alternative opinions; I have heard what you and others are saying; many many times over. It is also what the Union is saying but can the Union run Royal Mail as a PLC not a public service?

People should be able to express themselves without being shut down. You cannot convince me that strikes are the way forward. A resolution has to be reached. However, the more money we personally lose through strikes and the company too, the farther we shall be to a resolution.

We cannot stop the change! We have tempered some of the changes for now; that will give RM a chance to actually see whether the change will make them more profits and stay ahead of the competition. If it does, they will come for the rest of us; by that time the multi-tier workforce will make it easier for them. And the Union'si wings has been clipped, will further shrivel to make things easier for them next time.

I repeat that I am ready to accept this deal but the 3.5% should be backdated to April 2022. Perhaps the Union can use their clout, if there is any credibility left, to get us a further lump for next year depending on inflation. Maybe a 1% or 2% on salary earned in Year 2.

I will ride with RM for as long as I can bear it - I applied to work and get paid, that is it!

[rambo1]

They are employed on 40 hours. It is on another thread here. The differences also highlighted in a table.

I should also add that the jobs on newer terms were being advertised before the announcement yesterday. It is here somewhere on this forum

Two tiered workforce will just create division moving forward. With such an inferior hourly pay rate we will be in danger in future disputes on pay.
Also how long before our paid breaks are gone like the newbies.
There will be incentive created to move the old contracts out of the job. This could increase bullying and unfair dismissals when conducted.
It is a race to the bottom. It has been a race to the bottom for a while with these other firms denying any basic workers rights.
Once these inferior contracts are sown into the fabric of Royal Mail it's game over anyway.
Healthy to have alternate views and appreciate some of your comments on need for change, but to think they will stop with this is naive.
We will lose it all eventually....
Two tiered workforce makes it harder for any union to affectively negotiate.
Somethings are worth fighting for.
This is what most colleagues I know agree on.
I'm not even sure their model will be more efficient. Given van drivers numerous postcodes in a busy urban area is very time consuming.
Given oversized to posties normal rounds is a much better method in my opinion.
I have done both.... LATs when covering a busy area over 3 - 4 postcodes take forever.
Not to mention the traffic problems and productivity problems delivering in the dark....
It's bad for the customer, the company, and ultimately the workforce.
Senior management count pounds saved using PDAs and computer analysis.
Deep down they haven't got a scooby how to run this company because they don't understand the logistics of the job.

Yeah, but you would say that because you've done the job. Oh hang on, that's what should happen, they should ask us. But they never do.

[Gasman11]

It is the extent and pace of the change thats the problem and should rightly be challenged and debated , why should we just blithely agree to our job being dismantled before our very eyes. Thompson is refusing to negotiate, ergo the only weapon we have is to withdraw our labour. You accept it all you want chrisj, i believe the vast majority think differently and are willing to stand up to this assault on our jobs to secure a more palatable outcome.

[49erman]

It is the extent and pace of the change thats the problem and should rightly be challenged and debated , why should we just blithely agree to our job being dismantled before our very eyes. Thompson is refusing to negotiate, ergo the only weapon we have is to withdraw our labour. You accept it all you want chrisj, i believe the vast majority think differently and are willing to stand up to this assault on our jobs to secure a more palatable outcome.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Mickey brown: this is not just me or your close colleagues. It is about the collective,! It does not matter how great your argument or mine is, the reality is that Royal Mail is a PLC and these companies are run by those appointed to run the company not the workers or the Union.

Whether they get it wrong or not is beyond my pay grade - it happens all the time. Even a Prime Minister can get things so wrong...

People should stop having a go at alternative opinions; I have heard what you and others are saying; many many times over. It is also what the Union is saying but can the Union run Royal Mail as a PLC not a public service?

People should be able to express themselves without being shut down. You cannot convince me that strikes are the way forward. A resolution has to be reached. However, the more money we personally lose through strikes and the company too, the farther we shall be to a resolution.

We cannot stop the change! We have tempered some of the changes for now; that will give RM a chance to actually see whether the change will make them more profits and stay ahead of the competition. If it does, they will come for the rest of us; by that time the multi-tier workforce will make it easier for them. And the Union'si wings has been clipped, will further shrivel to make things easier for them next time.

I repeat that I am ready to accept this deal but the 3.5% should be backdated to April 2022. Perhaps the Union can use their clout, if there is any credibility left, to get us a further lump for next year depending on inflation. Maybe a 1% or 2% on salary earned in Year 2.

I will ride with RM for as long as I can bear it - I applied to work and get paid, that is it!

If you look at my original post I said I understood you perspective even though it isn't the view of the majority. Alternative opinions are healthy and I'm not trying to change you opinion just putting mine across.

Also we have seen many CEOs come and go over the years with many ideas on where they want to take us.
We managed to keep our jobs decent up to now.
Granted this is the worst attack any postal worker in living memory has been under by the employer but im not ready to sell out the next generation of postal workers.
Personally I will be looking for employment elsewhere if we lose this fight.

[carlosevenos]

Vesa are going to take over. And a break up is what they want. There is no way striking is going to work anymore. Got too many agency covering all the tracked and specials. They are preparing to replace us as we speak. They have plenty of money as are happy to spend a fortune on overtime for agency, yet tell us there's none for us. Personally I am disheartened by how these people who work for agencies can be happy screwing us over, and know exactly why they were brought in. I morally wouldn't be able to do it myself.

The union acted too slowly. 1 day strikes were a waste of time. Needed more than that. And the rolling strikes falling through are the nail in the coffin.

The government have ruined are chances by letting this takeover happen. I don't know how people like this exist in the world. Pure evil.