LTB 027/26 – Dispute Resolution Process, USO & Equalisation

[claretandblue]

Ted e bear how do the days off work out with 3 in 4?.

Depends which option the office votes for.

[ted_e_bear]

Ted e bear how do the days off work out with 3 in 4?.

Tbh I can't remember the exact ins and outs but there was supposed to be I think 9 options to vote for inc regular 1 in 6 and Wallington's like already exist but apparently most went for 2 in 6 Saturdays, there was a lot of info on here at the time it first raised it's ugly head, I'm pretty sure it'll all be discussed again shortly

[Stuart.db70]

Could some one explain what the 4 in 3 model is my understanding is you do you own walk Monday Wednesday and Friday and different walks on Tuesday and Thursday
We had people come into our office a few months ago and colour coordinate all Our frames but it seems it’s six walks with same colours and not four nothing really seems to be that clear

If you base it on 2 pairs of van share so 4 individual walks then instead of 4 people you've only got 3, that's the 4 in 3 bit.

The royal mail odm method they rolled out in the trial offices goes like this.

Based on 2 pairs of van share walks -

Monday walks 1&2 everthing as normal, walks 3&4 parcels+1c mail only, done by the 3rd person.
Tuesday walks 3&4 everything and 1&2 parcels+1c
Wednesday - as per Monday and so on but Saturday it's all 4 walks parcels+1c only so on Monday and Tuesday you'll have 3 days mail on each pair of walks.

If all that makes sense.

Yes with a side order of no
If you got two shared walks which will be done
by three where does the 4th person go and with
rest days won’t that three on certain days be two and o and thought the union stated that you wouldn’t do two heavy days on the trot thanks for earlier reply

[clashcityrocker]

Yes with a side order of no
If you got two shared walks which will be done
by three where does the 4th person go

The dole queue.

[ted_e_bear]

Could some one explain what the 4 in 3 model is my understanding is you do you own walk Monday Wednesday and Friday and different walks on Tuesday and Thursday
We had people come into our office a few months ago and colour coordinate all Our frames but it seems it’s six walks with same colours and not four nothing really seems to be that clear

If you base it on 2 pairs of van share so 4 individual walks then instead of 4 people you've only got 3, that's the 4 in 3 bit.

The royal mail odm method they rolled out in the trial offices goes like this.

Based on 2 pairs of van share walks -

Monday walks 1&2 everthing as normal, walks 3&4 parcels+1c mail only, done by the 3rd person.
Tuesday walks 3&4 everything and 1&2 parcels+1c
Wednesday - as per Monday and so on but Saturday it's all 4 walks parcels+1c only so on Monday and Tuesday you'll have 3 days mail on each pair of walks.

If all that makes sense.

Yes with a side order of no
If you got two shared walks which will be done
by three where does the 4th person go and with
rest days won’t that three on certain days be two and o and thought the union stated that you wouldn’t do two heavy days on the trot thanks for earlier reply

1. As clash pointed out that's where the savings come from there's 25% less staff required.

2. There's still cover duties

3. The suggestion was you rotate between all items and parcels only days but as there's 3 people involved it couldn't be as low as 1 walking all items day followed by a driving parcels day, obviously all 3 have to be drivers.

As I said previously there was lots of info posted on here previously if you want to try and search but as it's about to kick off again it'll probably become apparent shortly.

[hans solo]

And the non drivers ????

[funkflex55]

And the non drivers ????

Non drivers get paired with the driver everyday and walk every shift. Just like now except with 2 or 3 days mail every day.

[ted_e_bear]

And the non drivers ????

Non drivers get paired with the driver everyday and walk every shift. Just like now except with 2 or 3 days mail every day.

I'm predicting the next question.....

What about Saturdays ?

Some ideas were put forward such as non drivers attend and prep d2ds or go out two up in a van to assist the driver but no one knows for sure, perhaps the actual scenario will be they don't attend but who knows.

[norris9]

What about rurals?

I'd assume you'd have 3 posties who cover 4 duties, but they don't van-share.

[Trumanity]

It seems bizarre RM aren't prepared to use the heavy/light model if it actually works over the 4 into 3 model which doesn't seem to work, if they haven't been prepared to accept it for the last 18 months of talks it seems unlikely they'll accept it within the next month of talks.

It might work but it probably doesn't save enough money for them.

THEY WANT TO CRASH THE REMNANTS OF THE SERVICE. THEY WANT RID OF LETTERS AND OPGs! Royal Mail as GLS wth self-employed couriers with their own vans using the super hub and parcel locker network. No PAYE, No Pension, No Vans, No Sick pay, No uniform, No CWU and all that beautiful, delivery office land worth at least 8,000,000,000 Sterling (a lot more if developed!) Am I that far from the truth?

[clashcityrocker]

All this talk of them running the service down so they can go to Ofcom to request a further dumbing down of the service is all well and good.
But it will be parliament that decides if the USO can be downgraded and that might be a very long and laborious process.
It isn't going to happen overnight.
The very partial relaxation of second class deliveries has taken years.

[mr hil.]

What about rurals?

I'd assume you'd have 3 posties who cover 4 duties, but they don't van-share.

In the original plans Rurals would not be included at first, but rumours of doing half a rural 1st class and parcels and half everything. Switching each half so they all get a full delivery every other day. This would allow the possibilty of adding delivery points to the rurals to make up the time saved by only doing half and half.

The original plans also included revising the town walks to make them shorter (20-30 minutes was mentioned) so that the new 4 into 3 was achievable, however the recent revisions added too much to the existing duties making them too long to start with. This was why many of the trial sites had to add walks back in then add even more walks back in when the first try resulted in duties still failing.

I did the maths when the first proposals came out and on paper they worked, but only if the walks were made shorter (basically restoring the offices to one or two revisions ago) when the office last was able to clear everyday without the need for pressure overtime. However this making the rounds smaller obviously reduces the potential savings and was quickly abandoned (as far as I can tell).

[dazzler123]

All this talk of them running the service down so they can go to Ofcom to request a further dumbing down of the service is all well and good.
But it will be parliament that decides if the USO can be downgraded and that might be a very long and laborious process.
It isn't going to happen overnight.
The very partial relaxation of second class deliveries has taken years.

Well thats the end game, they eventually get what they want. In the meantime its us that suffer

[TopperGas]

All this talk of them running the service down so they can go to Ofcom to request a further dumbing down of the service is all well and good.
But it will be parliament that decides if the USO can be downgraded and that might be a very long and laborious process.
It isn't going to happen overnight.
The very partial relaxation of second class deliveries has taken years.

It will take years to impose the present 3 into 4 delivery model, until that's in place and working, assuming it ever does work will take years anyway.

I can just see RM going to the Government and say even 3 into 4 doesn't work in the rural duties so they need funding if they insist on a regular postal service or they just have to make do with once (or twice) a week deliveries.

[clashcityrocker]

Personally I can't see any government agreeing to ending the USO.
It would be electoral suicide.
You would have MP after MP standing up in the House droning on about how important a letter service is to their elderly constituents because if they didn't they could kiss re-election goodbye.