Where we are!!

[TopperGas]

I'm of the opinion that their obsession with later starts is because of their other obsession with capturing the later acceptance of parcels, of course we currently do that with the lat's but the problem is RM's own making, it costs a fortune to pay out a fixed rate to the lat/Sunday staff, round here they get 6 hours fixed rate on Sunday and most do considerably less hours work, I think the weekday lats get 4 hours, again regardless of amount of parcels.

Why not just manage it properly for a change and maybe introduce split/hybrid type duties where you do say half a walk then lats, I'm sure that would be popular with folk who are struggling physically.

I think RM's idea is that instead of having separate duties the LAT stuff gets processed in MCs along with everything else and gets delivered by DOs with everything else, rather than having separate duties in DOs

The suggestion by some seems to be that LATs and collections/SA's will form part of normal duties, however, LATs don't arrive at our MC until just before mid day then take up to a further hour to reach the DO's, even with later starts the duties will have already left the DO and started their rounds. If collections/SA's form part of the duties that will require further revisions along with the creation of more duties.

[TopperGas]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

[stevejm]

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

RM are being cute about this as they say you will 'get' statutory sick pay for the first 3 days of your second absence.
Actually, you will get SFA = nothing!! [ because statutory sickness is not payable for the first 3 days]

So if you are off for a week and lets say you make £500/week before deductions or £100/day- then you will get just £200 that week instead of £500. A £300 loss if you are throwing a sickie.

Where this will come back to bite RM is that those so inclined to throw a sickie will now do so for 2 or 3 weeks to make the £300 loss in the first week more bearable because they will still get the full £500/week sick pay in weeks 2 and 3.

Those who are genuinely sick will lose out.

**************************************************************************************************************************

The really insidious, sneaky and underhand change is on payout for ill health retirement. If you are sick enough that you can be medically signed off for ill health retirement then it's likely you'll have spent many weeks off sick. Each week you are off sick and have received sick pay will be deducted from the 34 weeks ill health retirement payout. It's quite feasible that you could be off for 34 weeks sick - (cancer/stroke/heart surgery) - in which case, if you are no longer fit for work, or perish the thought, terminally ill, then you will get a big fat zero on your lll health retirement.

That's my reading of it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If i'm right then the callousness is out of control - R.M bosses should be ashamed of sneaking that one into this agreement and there is no way the CWU should ever countenance an agreement with that clause in it.

[k979aaa]

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

RM are being cute about this as they say you will 'get' statutory sick pay for the first 3 days of your second absence.
Actually, you will get SFA = nothing!! [ because statutory sickness is not payable for the first 3 days]

So if you are off for a week and lets say you make £500/week before deductions or £100/day- then you will get just £200 that week instead of £500. A £300 loss if you are throwing a sickie.

Where this will come back to bite RM is that those so inclined to throw a sickie will now do so for 2 or 3 weeks to make the £300 loss in the first week more bearable because they will still get the full £500/week sick pay in weeks 2 and 3.

Those who are genuinely sick will lose out.

**************************************************************************************************************************

The really insidious, sneaky and underhand change is on payout for ill health retirement. If you are sick enough that you can be medically signed off for ill health retirement then it's likely you'll have spent many weeks off sick. Each week you are off sick and have received sick pay will be deducted from the 34 weeks ill health retirement payout. It's quite feasible that you could be off for 34 weeks sick - (cancer/stroke/heart surgery) - in which case, if you are no longer fit for work, or perish the thought, terminally ill, then you will get a big fat zero on your ll health retirement.

That's my reading of it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If i'm right then the callousness is out of control - R.M bosses should be ashamed of sneaking that one into this agreement and there is no way the CWU should never countenance an agreement with that clause in it.

I agree with you top post by the way.

[FilthyBloke]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

[k979aaa]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

[FilthyBloke]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

[k979aaa]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

Pay ,Sick Pay,IHR and the problem of dismissed members of the union I do think ground can be gained on these issues but it will come at a cost. We do have the basics of a deal to walk away now is not the time we need to get this over the line for both sides but also for everyone in RM and the whole nation but we need a good deal that people will vote for. Just recommending it is not enough hell RM can afford it if they give £567 Million away and have a warchest or access to the funding of £1.7 billion they have the capital it is how much of it will we receive!

[FilthyBloke]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

Pay ,Sick Pay,IHR and the problem of dismissed members of the union I do think ground can be gained on these issues but it will come at a cost. We do have the basics of a deal to walk away now is not the time we need to get this over the line for both sides but also for everyone in RM and the whole nation but we need a good deal that people will vote for. Just recommending it is not enough hell RM can afford it if they give £567 Million away and have a warchest or access to the funding of £1.7 billion they have the capital it is how much of it will we receive!

But how can the union get RM to negotiate now? They walked away from talks last week.
There is questions over striking during election months. I’m not sure how else CWU can force RM hands.
It could be that all of the above you mentioned gets slightly tweaked but I can’t see much more than that now.

Are there more talks planned?

[k979aaa]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

Pay ,Sick Pay,IHR and the problem of dismissed members of the union I do think ground can be gained on these issues but it will come at a cost. We do have the basics of a deal to walk away now is not the time we need to get this over the line for both sides but also for everyone in RM and the whole nation but we need a good deal that people will vote for. Just recommending it is not enough hell RM can afford it if they give £567 Million away and have a warchest or access to the funding of £1.7 billion they have the capital it is how much of it will we receive!

But how can the union get RM to negotiate now? They walked away from talks last week.
There is questions over striking during election months. I’m not sure how else CWU can force RM hands.
It could be that all of the above you mentioned gets slightly tweaked but I can’t see much more than that now.

Are there more talks planned?

They or did have full on talks but now it is down to the on phone or emails they communicate like this before the full on talks and Brendon Barber will do this as well. Things will be going on as we type/post on here they both want a deal thing is what deal and can they recommended it. For us all to vote for it even then the test is we we vote for it?

[k979aaa]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

Pay ,Sick Pay,IHR and the problem of dismissed members of the union I do think ground can be gained on these issues but it will come at a cost. We do have the basics of a deal to walk away now is not the time we need to get this over the line for both sides but also for everyone in RM and the whole nation but we need a good deal that people will vote for. Just recommending it is not enough hell RM can afford it if they give £567 Million away and have a warchest or access to the funding of £1.7 billion they have the capital it is how much of it will we receive!

But how can the union get RM to negotiate now? They walked away from talks last week.
There is questions over striking during election months. I’m not sure how else CWU can force RM hands.
It could be that all of the above you mentioned gets slightly tweaked but I can’t see much more than that now.

Are there more talks planned?

They or did have full on talks but now it is down to the on phone or emails they communicate like this before the full on talks and Brendon Barber will do this as well. Things will be going on as we type/post on here they both want a deal thing is what deal and can they recommended it. For us all to vote for it even then the test is will we vote for it?

[FilthyBloke]

Where are we?...

We are awaiting the talks to conclude within the next week. Dave Ward suggested they'd be in talks this weekend....

Simple as that. Royal Mail may have said 'talks have concluded', but it sounds like they haven't.... so let's just wait a few more days....

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

I don’t think RM were ever going to deviate from their original offer way back at the beginning. The main things they wanted they will get.
The CWU know that members want different things so will probably try to get a good deal on one of the elements. Most likely pay, a couple more percent pay rise and maybe a little more lump sum should do it.

We will see. But RM haven’t really been flexible at all and I see no reason for them to cave in now on the bigger changes.

Thing is both sides need a deal they can improve their offer but at the cost of what has been negotiated that is the crux of this matter!

But what? I think most of the changes are going to happen. It’s only the pay that can be negotiated that won’t get in their way of RM plans for the future.
I’m not sure what else CWU can do now.

Pay ,Sick Pay,IHR and the problem of dismissed members of the union I do think ground can be gained on these issues but it will come at a cost. We do have the basics of a deal to walk away now is not the time we need to get this over the line for both sides but also for everyone in RM and the whole nation but we need a good deal that people will vote for. Just recommending it is not enough hell RM can afford it if they give £567 Million away and have a warchest or access to the funding of £1.7 billion they have the capital it is how much of it will we receive!

But how can the union get RM to negotiate now? They walked away from talks last week.
There is questions over striking during election months. I’m not sure how else CWU can force RM hands.
It could be that all of the above you mentioned gets slightly tweaked but I can’t see much more than that now.

Are there more talks planned?

They or did have full on talks but now it is down to the on phone or emails they communicate like this before the full on talks and Brendon Barber will do this as well. Things will be going on as we type/post on here they both want a deal thing is what deal and can they recommended it. For us all to vote for it even then the test is we we vote for it?

Well let’s hope they come to something that resembles a deal good enough that the members will vote yes.
If it’s a NO vote then that complicate things further…

We shall see I suppose.

[TopperGas]

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

RM are being cute about this as they say you will 'get' statutory sick pay for the first 3 days of your second absence.
Actually, you will get SFA = nothing!! [ because statutory sickness is not payable for the first 3 days]

So if you are off for a week and lets say you make £500/week before deductions or £100/day- then you will get just £200 that week instead of £500. A £300 loss if you are throwing a sickie.

Where this will come back to bite RM is that those so inclined to throw a sickie will now do so for 2 or 3 weeks to make the £300 loss in the first week more bearable because they will still get the full £500/week sick pay in weeks 2 and 3.

Those who are genuinely sick will lose out.

**************************************************************************************************************************

The really insidious, sneaky and underhand change is on payout for ill health retirement. If you are sick enough that you can be medically signed off for ill health retirement then it's likely you'll have spent many weeks off sick. Each week you are off sick and have received sick pay will be deducted from the 34 weeks ill health retirement payout. It's quite feasible that you could be off for 34 weeks sick - (cancer/stroke/heart surgery) - in which case, if you are no longer fit for work, or perish the thought, terminally ill, then you will get a big fat zero on your lll health retirement.

That's my reading of it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If i'm right then the callousness is out of control - R.M bosses should be ashamed of sneaking that one into this agreement and there is no way the CWU should ever countenance an agreement with that clause in it.

I'm pretty certain RM stated they would pay SSP for the first 3 days, I guess otherwise they may as well have just said they won't pay sick pay for the first 3 days.

As far as IHR I recall there's something in the latest RM update suggesting sick pay will only be deducted for I'll health stopping you from being a postie not serious illness stopping from doing any kind of work. Although that's still a massive change in IHR payments from the present scheme for some types of ill health.

[k979aaa]

If that's is the case it sounds like a deal must be close with just a few minor tweaks, so basically everything RM proposed will have been accepted by the CWU, apart from the fact allowances will remain but what's the betting they are attacked again when the next pay review is due?

DW is still suggesting RM want to create a gig economy type job but still seems happy to accept most of the proposals. I bet even the board can't believe the change to our sick pay is going to be accepted.

RM are being cute about this as they say you will 'get' statutory sick pay for the first 3 days of your second absence.
Actually, you will get SFA = nothing!! [ because statutory sickness is not payable for the first 3 days]

So if you are off for a week and lets say you make £500/week before deductions or £100/day- then you will get just £200 that week instead of £500. A £300 loss if you are throwing a sickie.

Where this will come back to bite RM is that those so inclined to throw a sickie will now do so for 2 or 3 weeks to make the £300 loss in the first week more bearable because they will still get the full £500/week sick pay in weeks 2 and 3.

Those who are genuinely sick will lose out.

**************************************************************************************************************************

The really insidious, sneaky and underhand change is on payout for ill health retirement. If you are sick enough that you can be medically signed off for ill health retirement then it's likely you'll have spent many weeks off sick. Each week you are off sick and have received sick pay will be deducted from the 34 weeks ill health retirement payout. It's quite feasible that you could be off for 34 weeks sick - (cancer/stroke/heart surgery) - in which case, if you are no longer fit for work, or perish the thought, terminally ill, then you will get a big fat zero on your lll health retirement.

That's my reading of it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If i'm right then the callousness is out of control - R.M bosses should be ashamed of sneaking that one into this agreement and there is no way the CWU should ever countenance an agreement with that clause in it.

I'm pretty certain RM stated they would pay SSP for the first 3 days, I guess otherwise they may as well have just said they won't pay sick pay for the first 3 days.

As far as IHR I recall there's something in the latest RM update suggesting sick pay will only be deducted for I'll health stopping you from being a postie not serious illness stopping from doing any kind of work. Although that's still a massive change in IHR payments from the present scheme for some types of ill health.

Well show me the text and will judge it myself as to IHR which they set up as people will no longer be able to do this job in the times coming they said it themselves and what has changed? Bonuses have got bigger walks got bigger and fat cats at the top got bigger!

[needadvice]

I think we are still in the process of who blinks first and we will be here for a few months yet...