Fresh food inflation 13.3% Simon not 9?

[Tickson]

We aren’t getting an inflation equaling pay rise. Your efforts would be better served in ensuring this corrupt government is voted out of power as soon as possible.

Well at this rate we'll be striking till 2024 then lol if we wait for democracy to save us lol. Of course a general election must and deserves to happen now but in the meantime we have to negotiate and survive, a deal has to be done.

As I just pointed out before RM seems entitled enough to increase their prices by inflation on their bread and butter product, so why not our wages?

[LouBarlow]

We aren’t getting an inflation equaling pay rise. Your efforts would be better served in ensuring this corrupt government is voted out of power as soon as possible.

Well at this rate we'll be striking till 2024 then lol if we wait for democracy to save us lol. Of course a general election must and deserves to happen now but in the meantime we have to negotiate and survive, a deal has to be done.

As I just pointed out before RM seems entitled enough to increase their prices by inflation on their bread and butter product, so why not our wages?

We will be striking indefinitely if the aim is a 13% pay rise. Their raising of prices for services was before taking into account any wage rise for staff. They have to balance keeping services competitive with rivals and keeping profits steady. Given how little mail we are handling in November, which is lighter than any other year since I’ve been working there, this is going to be increasingly difficult. Especially when the cost of living crisis deepens and people reign in spending even more.

I’m afraid we have to keep our expectations realistic.

[Tickson]

Their raising of prices for services was before taking into account any wage rise for staff.

Well I'm not inside the boardroom but April is the start of the new financial year, and the pay was due to be negotiated under the precious agreement around then was it not? You cant say they weren't taking that into account at all in their planning for this year, we had 2% imposed on us eventually after all. Wages are part of the equation!

Also, these prices were raised just after they announced the bumper millions profits that the union hark on about. Why ruin a good thing?

They have to balance keeping services competitive with rivals and keeping profits steady.

But they increased the prices? In theory an increase in price would reduce demand for mail and hasten its decline. And it just so happened to be by near enough then-projected rate of inflation. Wheres the competitiveness there? It seems the only way they want to compete and make profits is on recking our terms and conditions while reducing quality of service.

I regognise that they have been doing offers with free consumer collects and some tracked prices recently. But their bread and butter, stamps, they're not bothered about?

Given how little mail we are handling in November, which is lighter than any other year since I’ve been working there, this is going to be increasingly difficult.

Clearly strikes have had an effect on processing and demand. Maybe this all could have been avoided? And now they want to push things back by 3 hours and take a day off the postal week. Choices are being made to diminish the service.

Especially when the cost of living crisis deepens and people reign in spending even more.

Perhaps RM could reign in their spending on £20 an hour strike breakers and agency staff, 1k bonuses for picket skipping managers, giving work to other companies or gimmicks like drones. Ridiculous choices being made every day. A company that is supposedly in this much trouble shouldn't be behaving like this.

Fact is it would have far cheaper to make a good deal months ago....if they were interested in growing RM.

I’m afraid we have to keep our expectations realistic

I'm very realistic when I see my monthly bills skyrocket. Fact is other places are making deals with their workers and eventually the "market rate" is gonna catch up with RM. What are they gonna do then? It would be best to stay ahead imo.

[LouBarlow]

I'm very realistic when I see my monthly bills skyrocket. Fact is other places are making deals with their workers and eventually the "market rate" is gonna catch up with RM. What are they gonna do then? It would be best to stay ahead imo.

You aren’t comparing like with like though. No other courier or mail delivery firm has either the pay rates or terms and conditions we do, nor have seen a wage rise in line with inflation. We are in a declining market. While union representation is undoubtedly our strongest weapon, having people send less mail, and firms send less parcels, puts us in a position where we have to accept that compromises will have to be made.

[Schiff]

I'm very realistic when I see my monthly bills skyrocket. Fact is other places are making deals with their workers and eventually the "market rate" is gonna catch up with RM. What are they gonna do then? It would be best to stay ahead imo.

You aren’t comparing like with like though. No other courier or mail delivery firm has either the pay rates or terms and conditions we do, nor have seen a wage rise in line with inflation. We are in a declining market. While union representation is undoubtedly our strongest weapon, having people send less mail, and firms send less parcels, puts us in a position where we have to accept that compromises will have to be made.

We really don't have to accept anything of the sort. I will never vote to accept a below inflation pay offer.

My living costs have increased, so the amount that I must charge my employer for my labour has also increased. Like me, Royal Mail management should be looking to increase their revenues to meet their increasing overheads (including an increasing wage bill). If they instead try to drive down the wage bill then we must ensure that, as a consequence of that decision, we take action to destroy their revenues due to them being unable to provide a satisfactory service to their customers. That is something that RM management have to accept.

We will only have to accept a shitty deal if we talk ourselves into accepting a shitty deal.

[LouBarlow]

I'm very realistic when I see my monthly bills skyrocket. Fact is other places are making deals with their workers and eventually the "market rate" is gonna catch up with RM. What are they gonna do then? It would be best to stay ahead imo.

You aren’t comparing like with like though. No other courier or mail delivery firm has either the pay rates or terms and conditions we do, nor have seen a wage rise in line with inflation. We are in a declining market. While union representation is undoubtedly our strongest weapon, having people send less mail, and firms send less parcels, puts us in a position where we have to accept that compromises will have to be made.

We really don't have to accept anything of the sort. I will never vote to accept a below inflation pay offer.

My living costs have increased, so the amount that I must charge my employer for my labour has also increased. Like me, Royal Mail management should be looking to increase their revenues to meet their increasing overheads (including an increasing wage bill). If they instead try to drive down the wage bill then we must ensure that, as a consequence of that decision, we take action to destroy their revenues due to them being unable to provide a satisfactory service to their customers. That is something that RM management have to accept.

We will only have to accept a shitty deal if we talk ourselves into accepting a shitty deal.

I’m not sure how exactly taking down RM will get you an inflation busting pay rise, but I’ll let that one slide. The fact is, costs are increasing for RM, as are costs for our clients. You can’t simply whack up prices to cost a pay rise, and expect customers to pay it, when there are competitors that will provide the same service for a cheaper rate. Even the much derided offer equates to a pay rise for us, so I’m not sure why you are claiming they are driving down the wage bill.

They are willing to increase our pay if we change our conditions. I would agree that these changes are definitely not something we should welcome, but we either accept that the job is changing or we look elsewhere. I’d rather earn more money and adapt than burn the company down, but I can understand other people having their own priorities.

[Schiff]

They are willing to increase our pay if we change our conditions.

No. They are willing to give us a huge real terms pay CUT if we change our terms and conditions. I would far prefer to see Royal Mail driven out of existence than agree to that.

[Tickson]

You aren’t comparing like with like though. No other courier or mail delivery firm has either the pay rates or terms and conditions we do, nor have seen a wage rise in line with inflation.

Well I said all industries but okay. We're not like for like, because we do the mail as well. More graft, more responsibility I would argue. The job is different. It's only that ST wants to make us like other couriers, parcels first, a race to the bottom. Let's flip this around: say you're a salaried Amazon/whatever driver on £10 an hour- okay now go and walk 10 miles in winter as well. Would you do that on top for the same money? TNT tried and failed. If the legally binding universal service is too cumbersome for making profits, we're a natural monopoly and should be nationalised anyway.

Also, it's not like inflation has gone unnoticed by workers in those companies either:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ms-pay-cut

Being self employed with all expenses on you....no thank you! If this the alternative, it shows the importance of having a union.

We are in a declining market. While union representation is undoubtedly our strongest weapon, having people send less mail, and firms send less parcels, puts us in a position where we have to accept that compromises will have to be made.

They been sending less mail for years and years as we all well know, and yet revenue (in the billions) has been up every year for at least the last 5 (including before covid):

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... nd-reports

Yes costs are being incurred now because of the dispute (and frankly some of the nonsensical ways they've been handling it- I say again- £18-20 an hour casuals!) but it would have been far cheaper to make a deal sooner.

The reality is they see this revenue, still massive every year (12 BILLION last) and they are just pissed that they cant keep more of it for themselves.

Part of going forward in this dispute should be the fact that we can leverage our network. We dominate in small (read Ebay) parcels. It is simply not cheaper to drive a van to the odd house than to chuck it in with a positive who's already going there.

Yes parcels are up compared to letters in revenue, but what is never discussed (and I'm probably gonna start a topic on this very point) is what size those parcels are. Are they letter sized tickets for instance (going through as tracked items) or even small rectangle boxes like those nuts and seed ones? I wish I could remember what the official size criteria is called.

I have serious reservations about believing poverty stories from the top from a company this size. If they really are making a loss that simply means incompetence from upper management, not the boots on the ground.

[SpacePhoenix]

Yes parcels are up compared to letters in revenue, but what is never discussed (and I'm probably gonna start a topic on this very point) is what size those parcels are. Are they letter sized tickets for instance (going through as tracked items) or even small rectangle boxes like those nuts and seed ones? I wish I could remember what the official size criteria is called.

A good chunk of the "parcels" are technically large letters

[Tickson]

Yes parcels are up compared to letters in revenue, but what is never discussed (and I'm probably gonna start a topic on this very point) is what size those parcels are. Are they letter sized tickets for instance (going through as tracked items) or even small rectangle boxes like those nuts and seed ones? I wish I could remember what the official size criteria is called.

A good chunk of the "parcels" are technically large letters

Exactly! And they are justifying all these stripping changes based on "parcels are up against letters", but most are literally letter sized!

They should focus on growing the small parcel market for the posties to deliver. Look how much Amazon waste with their Russian doll style boxes. Pre paid packaging perhaps?

[SpacePhoenix]

Look how much Amazon waste with their Russian doll style boxes. Pre paid packaging perhaps?

Some firms sometimes uses boxes that are way too big for the contents. You pick on up and you can hear whatever it is sliding about inside the box. On the flip side you sometimes get firms try to jam too much into a box or bag

[Tickson]

Some firms sometimes uses boxes that are way too big for the contents.

I think it's all to do with making their van runs more efficient- square boxes tetris style- not necessarily what is strictly economical for the actual item. This is what I'm talking about, we could leverage our way of working to rake it in by incentiving and providing efficient packaging

[k979aaa]

Fresh food? Inflation is what it is coffee is 40% thing is lets just agree CPI or RPI and look at most private pay deals average 6.8% today so you need to look at that. And if RM want a deal that is before change all change is extra in my book depends on the change but they cannot afford all they want so will have to pick what they want and it will cost them extra!

[daveyeff]

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-even ... y-dispute/ at the bottom of that link it says hull drivers have won a 20% payrise. Unite again.