Proposed annualised hours

[Foxel]

Also, there aren't always enough PDA's.

[Gary55]

I’ll expect we will still have people coming in Early in our office

Yes same as our office.first people to bleat when they mentioned Extra lapsing. w*****s

[Woody Guthrie]

No one can be made to work past contracted hours be they annualised or not without paying you … banking hours isn’t legal.

They aren't talking about not paying people for the hours they work.

The point of annualised hours is to change your work pattern at different periods of the year depending on traffic but keep the same number of annual contracted hours and pay people their average contracted hours each week.

None of that requires a PDA or scan in/scan out.

You'll just be told for this 10 week period your contracted hours are 33hrs or 37hrs or 44hrs etc.

What happens over and above those hours will have nothing to do with annualised hours. That will be overtime and that's where flexi-hours or "banking hours" kicks in which will use PDA data.

Flexi-hours will not affect annualised hours but will affect weekly overtime payments because any time you're under your daily contracted hours will be subtracted from any time you are over.

Obviously one of the problems with this is that alongside a "commitment to deliver" and potentially a 44hr week you could conceivably get to Thursday 2-3hrs in the hole and a manager could say to you that your partner has gone sick and we want you to deliver the whole two duties even if it takes you until 8pm.

Unfortunately this system of recording work hours is very much legal.

[Acca Dacca]

Where is this commitment to deliver mentioned by Royal Mail btw? I'd like to read more on what they have said.

It has absolutely no chance of ever being implemented - im not even sure that its legal.

[rambo1]

No one can be made to work past contracted hours be they annualised or not without paying you … banking hours isn’t legal.

They aren't talking about not paying people for the hours they work.

The point of annualised hours is to change your work pattern at different periods of the year depending on traffic but keep the same number of annual contracted hours and pay people their average contracted hours each week.

None of that requires a PDA or scan in/scan out.

You'll just be told for this 10 week period your contracted hours are 33hrs or 37hrs or 44hrs etc.

What happens over and above those hours will have nothing to do with annualised hours. That will be overtime and that's where flexi-hours or "banking hours" kicks in which will use PDA data.

Flexi-hours will not affect annualised hours but will affect weekly overtime payments because any time you're under your daily contracted hours will be subtracted from any time you are over.

Obviously one of the problems with this is that alongside a "commitment to deliver" and potentially a 44hr week you could conceivably get to Thursday 2-3hrs in the hole and a manager could say to you that your partner has gone sick and we want you to deliver the whole two duties even if it takes you until 8pm.

Unfortunately this system of recording work hours is very much legal.

Bit of a bugger if you like having annual leave in winter to get some sun as you'll have to use up more leave. Get paid more if you're off sick in winter though, wonder if they've thought of that one, maybe thats why they want to change sick pay?

[yellowbelly]

Bit of a bugger if you like having annual leave in winter to get some sun as you'll have to use up more leave. Get paid more if you're off sick in winter though, wonder if they've thought of that one, maybe thats why they want to change sick pay?

Not sure about the leave, but re the sick - their intention is to pay us exactly the same per week/month whether it's winter
or summer so you wouldn't get more sick pay in winter (that's my take on it), or am I wrong?

[2yearpostie]

No one can be made to work past contracted hours be they annualised or not without paying you … banking hours isn’t legal.

They aren't talking about not paying people for the hours they work.

The point of annualised hours is to change your work pattern at different periods of the year depending on traffic but keep the same number of annual contracted hours and pay people their average contracted hours each week.

None of that requires a PDA or scan in/scan out.

You'll just be told for this 10 week period your contracted hours are 33hrs or 37hrs or 44hrs etc.

What happens over and above those hours will have nothing to do with annualised hours. That will be overtime and that's where flexi-hours or "banking hours" kicks in which will use PDA data.

On a positive note, that potentially means loads of docket in the summer but less in the winter as we all know any job cant currently be completed in less than 6 hours ( 30 hours a week). that means at least 5 hours a week docket for a lot of p/t staff, and any full timer walk on a 35/37 hour contact as they wont be able to remove that work over summer, ( as we all know its not how much work there is, if you have a cul de sack you know your walking all the way round it even on a light day.)

[poolcued]

No one can be made to work past contracted hours be they annualised or not without paying you … banking hours isn’t legal.

They aren't talking about not paying people for the hours they work.

The point of annualised hours is to change your work pattern at different periods of the year depending on traffic but keep the same number of annual contracted hours and pay people their average contracted hours each week.

None of that requires a PDA or scan in/scan out.

You'll just be told for this 10 week period your contracted hours are 33hrs or 37hrs or 44hrs etc.

What happens over and above those hours will have nothing to do with annualised hours. That will be overtime and that's where flexi-hours or "banking hours" kicks in which will use PDA data.

Flexi-hours will not affect annualised hours but will affect weekly overtime payments because any time you're under your daily contracted hours will be subtracted from any time you are over.

Obviously one of the problems with this is that alongside a "commitment to deliver" and potentially a 44hr week you could conceivably get to Thursday 2-3hrs in the hole and a manager could say to you that your partner has gone sick and we want you to deliver the whole two duties even if it takes you until 8pm.

Unfortunately this system of recording work hours is very much legal.

Which begs the question, will I be entitled to longer breaks on days I’m working longer hours?

[Mick100]

Am I the only one who thinks annualised hours are a good thing I reckon if we start the clocking in and out January 1st my yearly hours should be complete by end of September giving me October, November and December off. Happy days

[Mick100]

You'll have a microchip inserted in your head under EA......

Seriously don’t joke

[POSTMAN]

Where is this commitment to deliver mentioned by Royal Mail btw? I'd like to read more on what they have said.

It has absolutely no chance of ever being implemented - im not even sure that its legal.

RMCtv : No cut offs - ever - You take it out - you deliver it all.

[Acca Dacca]

Where is this commitment to deliver mentioned by Royal Mail btw? I'd like to read more on what they have said.

It has absolutely no chance of ever being implemented - im not even sure that its legal.

RMCtv : No cut offs - ever - You take it out - you deliver it all.

Ok so lets see what he said ( is he the only source btw? Because this guy is a clown )

''Something that's important to cover off is that we're looking to enhance the commit to deliver principle, whereby if you're allocated some work for a route on a day, we would want that work to be completed. So if we look at our competitors, they wouldn't cut off and return to the Depo. With some work outstanding. What we're looking for within the really flexible hours approach is to have that ability to flex on the day outside of those scheduled hours. So that if there are variations from day to day, we complete that work. And if we go over the scheduled time, we bank those hours.''


So first things first - he says enhance the commit to deliver principal. The word 'enhance' suggests the commitment already exists in some form and principle suggests its not a commitment at all.

The expectation that you complete your duty has always existed.

''We would WANT that work to be completed''

Well, they WANT all work completed now as it is - the question is whether they can FORCE it to be completed. There is a difference.

So really the only thing that is ''enhanced'' to the current system, is that rather than pay overtime to complete they want you to bank the hours instead.

There is nothing about being forced to - not even the word 'commit' means a thing when they have used enhance before it and crucially the word PRINCIPLE after it.

Does the commit to deliver principle exist just now? His words suggest it does.

So the ''commit to deliver principle'' actually means....well not a lot.

[Dexydog]

Wait a minute...
How could they say in summer, "right it's quiet this week, you're doing 32 hours", or whatever.
Now we all know you most likely won't be able to complete, so how can they reduce your hours that week but still have commit to deliver???
We will basically be slaves to whatever they say.
It's all as dodgy as f##k with even more daily arguments than we have now.
Edit- apologies that's basically what acca dacca is saying above, must have been posting at same time.

[richietns]

Its basically backdoor zero hours contracts but without the contracts...commit to deliver all year.

[richietns]

Where is this commitment to deliver mentioned by Royal Mail btw? I'd like to read more on what they have said.

It has absolutely no chance of ever being implemented - im not even sure that its legal.

RMCtv : No cut offs - ever - You take it out - you deliver it all.

Ok so lets see what he said ( is he the only source btw? Because this guy is a clown )

''Something that's important to cover off is that we're looking to enhance the commit to deliver principle, whereby if you're allocated some work for a route on a day, we would want that work to be completed. So if we look at our competitors, they wouldn't cut off and return to the Depo. With some work outstanding. What we're looking for within the really flexible hours approach is to have that ability to flex on the day outside of those scheduled hours. So that if there are variations from day to day, we complete that work. And if we go over the scheduled time, we bank those hours.''


So first things first - he says enhance the commit to deliver principal. The word 'enhance' suggests the commitment already exists in some form and principle suggests its not a commitment at all.

The expectation that you complete your duty has always existed.

''We would WANT that work to be completed''
We are not commited at the moment we have a cut of time.
Well, they WANT all work completed now as it is - the question is whether they can FORCE it to be completed. There is a difference.

So really the only thing that is ''enhanced'' to the current system, is that rather than pay overtime to complete they want you to bank the hours instead.

There is nothing about being forced to - not even the word 'commit' means a thing when they have used enhance before it and crucially the word PRINCIPLE after it.

Does the commit to deliver principle exist just now? His words suggest it does.

So the ''commit to deliver principle'' actually means....well not a lot.