DAVE WARD STOP THE FLANNEL

[SMS1969]

And how do you keep track of annualised hours? Trust management when they say “right u owe me 50 hours over the next 2 months” or go back to the dry lunch of a union and complain?

You have set hrs for summer and winter a bit like you do for Tuesday and Wednesday now. You don't lose track of what hrs you work during a normal week now do you?

I havnt read everything re 'annualised hrs ' got a bit jaded with everything but, are RM now saying flexi hrs is effectively 35hrs over the summer and 39 over a same length winter period?

Yes

[FilthyBloke]

Most off our new starters have stayed its the older staff who have been there ages and can't handle the constant change that have been going.

I said months ago that the institutionalised posties will be the ones that struggle the most. They don’t like change. They don’t want change.

[grchpo]

There are 4 options....2 on agreement/ non agreement vote, or call a strike, or do nothing.
Striking is not gonna work, if we strike for next 12 months there will be no pay rise until an agreement, we will lose money week after week I believe we need to vote on on deal/ no deal as the only way forward but i think CWU might choose 4th option & just keep talking to save face.

[FilthyBloke]

There are 4 options....2 on agreement/ non agreement vote, or call a strike, or do nothing.
Striking is not gonna work, if we strike for next 12 months there will be no pay rise until an agreement, we will lose money week after week I believe we need to vote on on deal/ no deal as the only way forward but i think CWU might choose 4th option & just keep talking to save face.

The union are stuck really. They know the deal offered is not much different to the original offer which the CWU labelled an insult. The members have lost 2 grand or more going on strike and won’t be fooled into accepting an insulting offer no matter how much lipstick the union try and disguise it with.

They need something. One alteration that will make the members think “hmm, ok, that’ll do.”
Could be a bigger lump sum. Maybe a slightly bigger pay deal. New starters getting same contract. Sick pay perhaps..

I don’t think it will be workload or start times.

[chickenwittle]

Most off our new starters have stayed its the older staff who have been there ages and can't handle the constant change that have been going.

I said months ago that the institutionalised posties will be the ones that struggle the most. They don’t like change. They don’t want change.

Nobody likes change but we have had plenty of it over the years and just got on with it , no long term staff have left and I don’t foresee any leaving should this agreement come in .

[FilthyBloke]

Most off our new starters have stayed its the older staff who have been there ages and can't handle the constant change that have been going.

I said months ago that the institutionalised posties will be the ones that struggle the most. They don’t like change. They don’t want change.

Nobody likes change but we have had plenty of it over the years and just got on with it , no long term staff have left and I don’t foresee any leaving should this agreement come in .

A few have left in my place. Eventually they will leave and they will be replaced by short term posties who will treat the job as a stepping stone. The militant edge will diminish and the union will dwindle in numbers.
That’s what I think anyway

[enskied]

Seen as though most of the stuff has been agreed by the union I wonder what peoples thoughts are on what would swing it for the union to get the deal over the line.

I reckon reinstating the IHR and new starters levelling up in 2 years instead of 5 might do it.

Not bothered about the new starters. They will know the contract before they sign it.
All id like to see is an end to duties having too much piled on them.

Not bothered about new starters terms and conditions? You will be if we are taken over.

I kind of get where filthybloke is coming from,even though I dont like it. New contracts will definitely not be as good as most of us already have no matter what the union comes up with. It's just the market as RM see it. Theres plenty that work as owner drivers for evri for example or uber with no rights to holidays etc,many of these people just do it for a year or so and move on and people will use employment at RM in the same way in the future. The day of the RM lifer is coming to an end. Sad days

I think so. Also a lot of new starters that probably won’t intend on staying longer than a year or two (like a lot of new starters now TBF) will probably be less inclined to join the union.
I personally think in 5 years or so we will be a minimum wage company with a high turnover of staff and a smaller proportion of that staff will be CWU members.

That is exactly why the CWU will not allow a vote on any deal that involves new starters having less benefits. It would lead to their eventual demise. Both sides have an agenda here and we are stuck in the middle.

Are the union not right to protect future employees of the company? It’s all well and good saying get a job elsewhere but the CWU are paid to protect employees in this industry now and into the future.

You are correct chicken.
However we are here partially because the union mantra used to be "protecting full time jobs" Problem with that was that no full time jobs were being given. The Union more or less ignored their PT workers... And look now , we're almost a PT industry.

We have to fight for better terms and conditions for all or we will all be zero hours no security in no time.

[cows777]

The union has totally bottle it havent got the guts to strike for wot the members voted for..he has given RM until next wk to reach a agreement
and we walk away his famous saying we want an agreement these kind of attacks cannot go on wot a dick head!! they more interest in saving the company to save their own skins..CWU HAS LET EVERYBODY DOWN ... POLITICAL CORRUPT.




Dean

[TopperGas]

There are 4 options....2 on agreement/ non agreement vote, or call a strike, or do nothing.
Striking is not gonna work, if we strike for next 12 months there will be no pay rise until an agreement, we will lose money week after week I believe we need to vote on on deal/ no deal as the only way forward but i think CWU might choose 4th option & just keep talking to save face.

The union are stuck really. They know the deal offered is not much different to the original offer which the CWU labelled an insult. The members have lost 2 grand or more going on strike and won’t be fooled into accepting an insulting offer no matter how much lipstick the union try and disguise it with.

They need something. One alteration that will make the members think “hmm, ok, that’ll do.”
Could be a bigger lump sum. Maybe a slightly bigger pay deal. New starters getting same contract. Sick pay perhaps..

I don’t think it will be workload or start times.

That's probably already been agreed in the background and this is now just the two sides showboating in public and next week the CWU will announce they've managed to pull off a great deal, with just a minor detail change along the lines you've suggested.

[Halfhappy]

If the deal is what RM have basically offered, which is 10% over 3 years, you can make that 13% over 3 years just by cancelling your union subs.

Just saying……

No union and we wouldnt have even been offered the measly 2% for last year

Just saying...

Hey, if you’re happy with your union clap your hands.
A lot of people aren’t it seems.

For a person who is a not in the CWU, you invest an unhealthy amount of time posting about the CWU. Its a pretty tragic to think there's someone, out there, who's soulmate seems to be s**t posting, on a minute by minute basis, about a union they don't belong to.

It involves the company I have invested lots of time and effort into over the years so the union does still affect me.
When we have a weak union, like we do now, it makes people miserable.

Utter nonsense. What is making people miserable is the current management eroding the company, that you've allegedly invested so much time in. I don't see this reflected proportionally in your posts. Instead, you're posts serve no other purpose than to try to undermine and weaken the CWU's position, of which you're not a member. You have no union, so you can drop the "we". You're either a bad faith actor, or genuinely deluded.

The terms and conditions that everyone is in full scale panic over losing, were negotiated and protected by this so called "weak" union. I've been a member of other unions, in my days, so, if you want to talk about weak unions, take a look at USDAW. Heard anything from this union during the spate of industrial action across the country? Naa, now that's weak.

It seems to me that the only way people ever realise the value of something, is by losing it. Its endlessly pointed out just what sort of employment landscape we would have if there was no CWU to stand in the way of this management. It doesn't take a genius to realise that we'd all be on entirely different contracts, work hours and pay, or redundant, at this point. Yet the CWU is weak and the best thing to do is remove ourselves from a position of collective bargaining position, and leave everything up to the management who are attacking our jobs, terms and conditions. Total joke!

[chickenwittle]

If the deal is what RM have basically offered, which is 10% over 3 years, you can make that 13% over 3 years just by cancelling your union subs.

Just saying……

No union and we wouldnt have even been offered the measly 2% for last year

Just saying...

Hey, if you’re happy with your union clap your hands.
A lot of people aren’t it seems.

For a person who is a not in the CWU, you invest an unhealthy amount of time posting about the CWU. Its a pretty tragic to think there's someone, out there, who's soulmate seems to be s**t posting, on a minute by minute basis, about a union they don't belong to.

It involves the company I have invested lots of time and effort into over the years so the union does still affect me.
When we have a weak union, like we do now, it makes people miserable.

Utter nonsense. What is making people miserable is the current management eroding the company, that you've allegedly invested so much time in. I don't see this reflected proportionally in your posts. Instead, you're posts serve no other purpose than to try to undermine and weaken the CWU's position, of which you're not a member. You have no union, so you can drop the "we". You're either a bad faith actor, or genuinely deluded.

The terms and conditions that everyone is in full scale panic over losing, were negotiated and protected by this so called "weak" union. I've been a member of other unions, in my days, so, if you want to talk about weak unions, take a look at USDAW. Heard anything from this union during the spate of industrial action across the country? Naa, now that's weak.

It seems to me that the only way people ever realise the value of something, is by losing it. Its endlessly pointed out just what sort of employment landscape we would have if there was no CWU to stand in the way of this management. It doesn't take a genius to realise that we'd all be on entirely different contracts, work hours and pay, or redundant, at this point. Yet the CWU is weak and the best thing to do is remove ourselves from a position of collective bargaining position, and leave everything up to the management who are attacking our jobs, terms and conditions. Total joke!

[timbo1234]

Anybody accepting the revised proposal must be mad!
Sick pay totally decimated ,who can live on £109 a week SSP ?

Our job is full of Hazards ,physically demanding and we know RM didn’t give a xxxx during the heights of Covid.

Scenario:
First time ,you are off with a real bad type cold and cannot get out of bed(it’s going around the office).

Second time,You either sprain your ankle, pull your back ,Plantar fasciitis, knee gives way, trap your finger in the sliding door ,dog bite, anxiety, depression ,the list goes on and on.

Presently,Sick pay is the biggest benefit RM has and you never know when you might need it.
Statutory Sick Pay is only paid after day three at the rate of £109.40 per week.

If this goes to vote Please Think about it.

I think the above is a very important and sensible post. It may be only minor changes now but next year, and the year after that who knows what RM will steam roller through. SSP for first 3 months? Don't be naive enough to think they wouldn't dare to do it. You give RM an inch they take a mile.

[post6675]

I'm not a union member and i am very critical of the union but im quite sympathetic towards the leadership atm they are in a impossible situaton. members all want different things, they are dealing with a company with poor finances and there only weapon (strikes) will likely not help at all. very tough place to be in

[norris9]

no idea why people are moaning, they have said wait 1 more week and they will make a decision on whether to strike or not.

Criticise the union when they decide what to do next week. Why does 1 more week matter, you will still get paid any increase from April 6th if a deal is done and people vote for it.

They mentioned they would likely be talking with Royal Mail over the weekend.


I think a lot of people just want the £1,500 and then will leave the company within a year. People are frothing for it.

Dave has said we deserve a better deal and more money and people go 'NO NO NO DAVE! WOT U DOING DAVE, U HAVE BLOWN IT DAVE'.

[FilthyBloke]

If the deal is what RM have basically offered, which is 10% over 3 years, you can make that 13% over 3 years just by cancelling your union subs.

Just saying……

No union and we wouldnt have even been offered the measly 2% for last year

Just saying...

Hey, if you’re happy with your union clap your hands.
A lot of people aren’t it seems.

For a person who is a not in the CWU, you invest an unhealthy amount of time posting about the CWU. Its a pretty tragic to think there's someone, out there, who's soulmate seems to be s**t posting, on a minute by minute basis, about a union they don't belong to.

It involves the company I have invested lots of time and effort into over the years so the union does still affect me.
When we have a weak union, like we do now, it makes people miserable.

Utter nonsense. What is making people miserable is the current management eroding the company, that you've allegedly invested so much time in. I don't see this reflected proportionally in your posts. Instead, you're posts serve no other purpose than to try to undermine and weaken the CWU's position, of which you're not a member. You have no union, so you can drop the "we". You're either a bad faith actor, or genuinely deluded.

The terms and conditions that everyone is in full scale panic over losing, were negotiated and protected by this so called "weak" union. I've been a member of other unions, in my days, so, if you want to talk about weak unions, take a look at USDAW. Heard anything from this union during the spate of industrial action across the country? Naa, now that's weak.

It seems to me that the only way people ever realise the value of something, is by losing it. Its endlessly pointed out just what sort of employment landscape we would have if there was no CWU to stand in the way of this management. It doesn't take a genius to realise that we'd all be on entirely different contracts, work hours and pay, or redundant, at this point. Yet the CWU is weak and the best thing to do is remove ourselves from a position of collective bargaining position, and leave everything up to the management who are attacking our jobs, terms and conditions. Total joke!

But that’s your mindset. That the only things good about the company are because of the union and everything bad is because of the company.

There are jobs iv had that haven’t had a union and they were fine. Some not so fine.

The terms the union fought so hard to get in the Agenda for Growth they threw away when the balloted for strike over pay last year. Shot themselves in the foot. They come across as amateurish the videos and twitter feeds are like kids have managed them.

Silly slogans and propaganda posters adding further paranoia to its workforce like they are about to face the enemy in WWII.

And then when the union needs to act it makes poorly planned strike action (when it doesn’t cancel them last minute) and then updates it members with empty waffle.