It is what every union does

[nuisance]

But you've zero evidence if we kick out the union top brass they'll do any better? The CWU is not like a football club where there's a long line of managers available if they sack the one presently in charge.

As the other poster suggests there's zero appetite for further strikes and CWU members losing even more pay they'll never likely get back.

People are never keen to strike but they have done nothing but demonstrate that they are prepared to do it over RMs current proposals. The union have made errors and given RM ground all along. We pay our subs for a reason and although some union tactics have been impressive, more have been ill thought out and half-arsed. It's an understatement to say that mistakes have been made. You're right, a change in leadership might not be more successful but where a job has been done badly it's time to attempt to address trying to get it done better.

[dazzler123]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

Likely the people who sweep up the overtime

[stevejm]

But you've zero evidence if we kick out the union top brass they'll do any better? The CWU is not like a football club where there's a long line of managers available if they sack the one presently in charge.

As the other poster suggests there's zero appetite for further strikes and CWU members losing even more pay they'll never likely get back.

Lets look at the worst case scenario from a 'no' vote. And then the likely repercussions. And then where we'd be 6 months from now.

1. much more workload through executive action
2. leading to more delivery staff a/ leaving b/ going sick
3. leading to massive failure of USO and also parcel delivery to some extent
4. leading to a/ public outcry b/ RM losing customers

Benefits for RM , massively reduced costs but disadvantages would be falling revenue, massive staff turnover, 'losing' the junior managers who would be more stressed trying to handle the chaos.

Repercussions for the CWU - falling membership, less income.

So by November next year (or even before) I believe there'd be pressure from government and motivation to resolve the situation. Most likely a commitment to recruit more staff on worse T&C.

Not very appetising is it. Putting this out here not to provoke but to stimulate conversation - happy to hear alternative viewpoint.

[FilthyBloke]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

Ghosting is getting paid for overtime even though you finished your actual walk early. For example you are paid to work until 2, but actually finish at half 12, then whizz around and do the overtime and finish at 2 but still get paid 2 hours overtime.

Back in the day I my shift was 5-1 (roughly) but I would be finished by half 10 most days. Usually I’d grab another 2/3 hours overtime and still be finished around 1ish. I’d get 11 hours pay every day, give or take, and still have a couple of hours at home to play gears of war before my missus came home!

[richj2009]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

I thought ghosting was widespread. Basically they get paid extra hours to do an extra half duty or lats. As a result they rush round at lightening speed and often get done within contracted hours but are paid until six or something. I don't begrudge them that as it is hard work.

[SpacePhoenix]

Lets look at the worst case scenario from a 'no' vote. And then the likely percussions. And then where we'd be 6 months from now.

1. much more workload through executive action

My gut feeling is that it won't matter whether it's a yes or no vote, I think it's going to happen anyway

[LouBarlow]

People are never keen to strike but they have done nothing but demonstrate that they are prepared to do it over RMs current proposals. The union have made errors and given RM ground all along. We pay our subs for a reason and although some union tactics have been impressive, more have been ill thought out and half-arsed. It's an understatement to say that mistakes have been made. You're right, a change in leadership might not be more successful but where a job has been done badly it's time to attempt to address trying to get it done better.

The difference this time is the union are saying that this is the best deal we are going to get. They never did before any other ballot, at least since I’ve been working for RM. Them saying that automatically means striking going forward is not going to happen, as there is nothing left to strike for. Neither side wants strikes. This then permeates down to members, who take note of comments from both sides and realise that losing pay at this point is pointless, especially in the dire economic state that we are living in. Even a ‘no result’ will not result in strike action.

[richj2009]

Ide vote yes begrudgingly if they reversed revisions and stopped removing duties. Basically a realistic days work that can honour the uso. If they aren't honouring this nonsense agreement before the vote then there isn't an agreement. Our unit was already mostly to time or over. They removed three duties and all of a sudden people are over or bringing mail back. In two weeks three more duties are gone. How can anyone in my unit vote yes when the agreement is already being laughed at by Royal mail. The protection is limited on this basis and best case scenario they can tear it all up year after next. Its laughable really.

[nuisance]

striking going forward is not going to happen, as there is nothing left to strike for. Neither side wants strikes. This then permeates down to members, who take note of comments from both sides and realise that losing pay at this point is pointless, especially in the dire economic state that we are living in. Even a ‘no result’ will not result in strike action.

Again, I have no idea why you would like that to be true, but it isn't. There is a great deal of things to still strike for. The union's statements and spin are not representative of our, the membership's, side (hence the necessity for a "no vote" in the ballot). Nothing "permeates down" to members, what nonsense! Losing pay must be organised in a much more targeted, impactful way. A "no vote" will result in some industrial action if the membership instructs it.

[Nickvilla20]

striking going forward is not going to happen, as there is nothing left to strike for. Neither side wants strikes. This then permeates down to members, who take note of comments from both sides and realise that losing pay at this point is pointless, especially in the dire economic state that we are living in. Even a ‘no result’ will not result in strike action.

Again, I have no idea why you would like that to be true, but it isn't. There is a great deal of things to still strike for. The union's statements and spin are not representative of our, the membership's, side (hence the necessity for a "no vote" in the ballot). Nothing "permeates down" to members, what nonsense! Losing pay must be organised in a much more targeted, impactful way. A "no vote" will result in some industrial action if the membership instructs it.

Genuine question what do you think they will change with a no vote?

Stop revisions? More pay? No changes to sick pay? It’s ok saying they’re more to strike for but in reality what will it achieve.

Look how long the RMT dispute has gone on for and the government and rail companies have hardly budged. It’s the same with the teachers and nurses.

[Jinder]

But you've zero evidence if we kick out the union top brass they'll do any better? The CWU is not like a football club where there's a long line of managers available if they sack the one presently in charge.

As the other poster suggests there's zero appetite for further strikes and CWU members losing even more pay they'll never likely get back.

Let’s be honest, anyone coming in can’t do any worse than the CWU hierarchy. They promise a whole lot and delivered very little. I don’t buy “ the financial woes of the company rhetoric” they are all spouting at the moment, RM are in a mess of their own making. All the people supporting this agreement obviously don’t work in delivery, I do & will not submit to this gig economy employment model.

[nuisance]

Genuine question what do you think they will change with a no vote?

Stop revisions? More pay? No changes to sick pay? It’s ok saying they’re more to strike for but in reality what will it achieve.

Look how long the RMT dispute has gone on for and the government and rail companies have hardly budged. It’s the same with the teachers and nurses.

A no vote is to change the union's official position of making a bad agreement with RM incorporating a great deal of detrimental change.

Then the union will have to use some alternative strategies in order to motivate RM to come to a better agreement. Not necessarily to stop revisions, but to make then workable and realistic. More pay would be good, it's not my personal priority. I do absolutely think that accepting worse sick pay terms in a way that penalises the genuinely, occasionally ill and injured is a red line that needs to be reinstated.

Yes, these things can continue for a long time.

[FilthyBloke]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

I thought ghosting was widespread. Basically they get paid extra hours to do an extra half duty or lats. As a result they rush round at lightening speed and often get done within contracted hours but are paid until six or something. I don't begrudge them that as it is hard work.

Ghosting should really be a thing of the past now.
With the data RM can pull up it will only show that a particular duty needs more adding to it.

[richj2009]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

I thought ghosting was widespread. Basically they get paid extra hours to do an extra half duty or lats. As a result they rush round at lightening speed and often get done within contracted hours but are paid until six or something. I don't begrudge them that as it is hard work.

Ghosting should really be a thing of the past now.
With the data RM can pull up it will only show that a particular duty needs more adding to it.

That's not true. They largely start early have no break and run round safe in the knowledge they will be paid long after finishing. We could all run and take no break and get done. Without ghosting a lot of work wouldn't be done and certainly couldn't be added to existing duties. If you walk two miles you get there in say 30 mins. If you run it takes 20. It doesn't mean those duties need more added.

[FilthyBloke]

For example the ghosting boys in our office have all been off with hernia ops. We will all now be expected to do, on a daily basis, what they were once paid handsomely for.

what are ghosting boys? never heard that one before

I thought ghosting was widespread. Basically they get paid extra hours to do an extra half duty or lats. As a result they rush round at lightening speed and often get done within contracted hours but are paid until six or something. I don't begrudge them that as it is hard work.

Ghosting should really be a thing of the past now.
With the data RM can pull up it will only show that a particular duty needs more adding to it.

That's not true. They largely start early have no break and run round safe in the knowledge they will be paid long after finishing. We could all run and take no break and get done. Without ghosting a lot of work wouldn't be done and certainly couldn't be added to existing duties. If you walk two miles you get there in say 30 mins. If you run it takes 20. It doesn't mean those duties need more added.

It doesn’t mean it needs more.
But PDA data will show duties can be done by a certain time and it puts extra pressure on the posties who don’t want to start early and run round.