LTB 815/13 National Agreement Reached

[Postie45]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

why are we predicting the need to strike ? if RM doesnt meet its obligations under this deal then its a legal matter for the courts not something we would have to go on strike for.

You are underestimating how sly RM can be, well now it's privatised you can double that and add a cherry on top. There are more loop holes than a bowl of polo's in this agreement, loopholes that I am sure RM lawyers and management will have no problem exploiting.
The truth of the matter is the union had everything a union could possible need to get a great deal for its members, and they screwed it up.

Please can you be more specific to the loop holes you mention.

[Silly Sarah]

"7 Exceptional Circumstances

7.1 The Employer shall be entitled to notify the CWU at any time that any of the Protections will no longer continue, if any of the following exceptional circumstances apply

e) if there is national-scale industrial action (in the form of a strike or action short of a strike) which has been authorised at national level by the CWU, namely industrial action which either (i) involves employees in the majority of operational workplaces across Royal Mail Group Limited; or (ii) involves employees in an integral part of the operation whereby taking action will have, or is reasonably likely to have, a similarly disruptive effect."


I see people worryng about this "get out clause" but is this no different to what we have now anyway ?
I dont see under what circumstances the CWU would have a national strike so long as the agreed terms were honoured. Even if there was a strike surely it would be done to IMPROVE on this current agreement, not to worry about keeping this one as is.

The problem is RM have a history of not keeping to their side of any deal. So we are now powerless to do anything about it.

[twiddledumb]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

why are we predicting the need to strike ? if RM doesnt meet its obligations under this deal then its a legal matter for the courts not something we would have to go on strike for.

You are underestimating how sly RM can be, well now it's privatised you can double that and add a cherry on top. There are more loop holes than a bowl of polo's in this agreement, loopholes that I am sure RM lawyers and management will have no problem exploiting.
The truth of the matter is the union had everything a union could possible need to get a great deal for its members, and they screwed it up.

Please can you be more specific to the loop holes you mention.

This deal is actually worse than the original deal offered by RM, the union has somehow managed to broker a worse deal than what was offered. RM and its big shareholders must think we are thick !

Anyway, read the document for yourself, if you can't see them, then you deserve this deal, and I am sure you will be happy to vote yes.

[UNION JACK]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder
you WILL work longer

FFS, just work to your time. that way you are not worked harder or longer. Is that concept so difficult to understand?

[Postie45]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

why are we predicting the need to strike ? if RM doesnt meet its obligations under this deal then its a legal matter for the courts not something we would have to go on strike for.

You are underestimating how sly RM can be, well now it's privatised you can double that and add a cherry on top. There are more loop holes than a bowl of polo's in this agreement, loopholes that I am sure RM lawyers and management will have no problem exploiting.
The truth of the matter is the union had everything a union could possible need to get a great deal for its members, and they screwed it up.

Please can you be more specific to the loop holes you mention.

This deal is actually worse than the original deal offered by RM, the union has somehow managed to broker a worse deal than what was offered. RM and its big shareholders must think we are thick !

Anyway, read the document for yourself, if you can't see them, then you deserve this deal, and I am sure you will be happy to vote yes.

as i thought, thanks.

[UNION JACK]

Shamefull.

Shamefull on the CWU taking over 6 months to sort this. I demand to know how much actual time Dave & Billy sat at the table negotiating !!!!

This agreement sounds like it has been written by RM.

The fruit pickers will wave this agreement in pleased in the knowledge that theycan actually buy little johnny his x-box game that he has been demanding for so long - and will be forgotten about come January ..., frankly I'm amazed at the amount on here that would sell their soul for a few hundred quid

As for CWU - pah. What a complete sell out. All the balls up front when calling for the ballot only to bend over and wave the ass ready for the vaseline. I hope if anyone reading this was involved, you are happy with this.

Nothing really much left to say other than this.

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder
you WILL work longer
you WILL have the B&H just the same
you WILL not see the Union strike again

Be prepared to work your soul to pay for shareholders demanding profit.

Think you work hard now, - you ain''t seen nothing yet

Not me baby i dont work harder for no one ,stand up for yourself.Take your money and still work the same.

[OnAFlyer]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder No, I'll work the same as I do now which is a good days work.
you WILL work longer. No, I'll work 39 hrs still.
you WILL have the B&H just the same. I don't get B&H at all
you WILL not see the Union strike again There has only been 4 days national strike action since I started 16 years ago, at least that's all I can remember. It's hardly a regular thing.

Be prepared to work your soul to pay for shareholders demanding profit. Answered above.

Your hours aren't changing. RM can track my every move on delivery, I've nothing to hide so why has anyone else. It isn't used to catch people out it's used to improve customer service, DPD already sends you texts telling you where the driver is and roughly how long he'll be.

We had several redeliveries today that we didn't get to until around 2pm and the customers had gone out. Tracking would enable them to check where we were to make sure they were in when they needed to be.

The only people that will be working harder will be the p*ss takers, and there are plenty of those in RM. Some in our office today threw all their large packets out for the spare drivers, were out the door for 9.15 and are on the easiest pair of duties in the office. Meanwhile we went in dead on time and put the first letter in at 10.30.

[k979aaa]

Who on here has read the so called deal I did all 36 pages of it plus 8 pages of the pensions agreement so I do feel able to comment on this sham of an agreement. It did not will not stop what the whole action has been about the workplace issues without this it cannot be called an agreement only an agreement to disagree which if you do you invalidate the whole agreement! HOW CAN THIS BE CALLED AN AGREEMENT IT IS A SHAM

[Postie45]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder No, I'll work the same as I do now which is a good days work.
you WILL work longer. No, I'll work 39 hrs still.
you WILL have the B&H just the same. I don't get B&H at all
you WILL not see the Union strike again There has only been 4 days national strike action since I started 16 years ago, at least that's all I can remember. It's hardly a regular thing.

Be prepared to work your soul to pay for shareholders demanding profit. Answered above.

Your hours aren't changing. RM can track my every move on delivery, I've nothing to hide so why has anyone else. It isn't used to catch people out it's used to improve customer service, DPD already sends you texts telling you where the driver is and roughly how long he'll be.

We had several redeliveries today that we didn't get to until around 2pm and the customers had gone out. Tracking would enable them to check where we were to make sure they were in when they needed to be.

The only people that will be working harder will be the p*ss takers, and there are plenty of those in RM. Some in our office today threw all their large packets out for the spare drivers, were out the door for 9.15 and are on the easiest pair of duties in the office. Meanwhile we went in dead on time and put the first letter in at 10.30.

theres still this culture of rushing about to finish early, which is causing a lot of the problems. The people rushing around are making it harder on everyone else.

[bustedflush]

The agreement has "exceptional changes" clauses if theres major changes to RMs role. They appear to me to be pretty standard clauses, only kicking in if major changes occur to RM with regard to USO or if parts of the business become financially unsustainable.
I dont think we should expect to be wrapped in cotton wool if the business started to lose a ton of money, any other job you wouldnt be protected from this I dont see why we would think we have a special right to be keep current terms under these circumstances especially for such a long timescale. The CWU has improved our current terms under the status quo, I dont think we can expect them to do much more than that.
Are the clauses something the CWU instigated ? no of course not, but they realised they were reasonable if there were major changes to the business.

[OnAFlyer]

Who on here has read the so called deal I did all 36 pages of it plus 8 pages of the pensions agreement so I do feel able to comment on this sham of an agreement. It did not will not stop what the whole action has been about the workplace issues without this it cannot be called an agreement only an agreement to disagree which if you do you invalidate the whole agreement! HOW CAN THIS BE CALLED AN AGREEMENT IT IS A SHAM

You've been criticising the CWU and the agreement for months without even seeing it, I doubt anyone expected you to change your mind. The clauses are standard stuff as pointed out above.

Can I ask you a genuine question, are you looking for another job? Cos if I hated my job, my employer and my union as much as you do I'd be off in a flash.

[OnAFlyer]

The agreement has "exceptional changes" clauses if theres major changes to RMs role. They appear to me to be pretty standard clauses, only kicking in if major changes occur to RM with regard to USO or if parts of the business become financially unsustainable.
I dont think we should expect to be wrapped in cotton wool if the business started to lose a ton of money, any other job you wouldnt be protected from this I dont see why we would think we have a special right to be keep current terms under these circumstances especially for such a long timescale. The CWU has improved our current terms under the status quo, I dont think we can expect them to do much more than that.
Are the clauses something the CWU instigated ? no of course not, but they realised they were reasonable if there were major changes to the business.

Why are you talking common sense, this forum is for ranting only!

There's a reason why RM have given a 5 year deal, it's because they are pretty certain the business will do pretty well and continue to make good profits over the next few years. But those clauses have to be in there just in case, no business would ever leave itself open like that should something go seriously wrong.

It's not this agreement we need to worry about, the CWU have done as well as they could have IMO. It's the agreement after this one if profits start to slide in any way that could be painful. But that's for another day.

[ragsie76]

Don't know y everyone is moaning in my last job I had to work 7 days a week to take home £300 I think the money is very good all u hove to do is through off your mail and deliver it in the hours given it's not rocket science. Just start at correct time and finish ontime. Xmas time is different as it's much busier but the rest of the year just work your hours . In my office my manger doesn't care if u finish early on day say a Tuesday but if u need to go over 30mins on a Wednesday to finish then do so I'm sure most of u would get that 30mins back on a Tuesday if not more. If people don't like the job I'm sure there are other people who would love to get paid £320 a week just to do a pretty easy job, and it's a Great way of losing weight to. You could always do a more difficult job like work in a hospital were they only been offer a 1% pay rise this the offer we getting is very good.

[Wild Rover]

Who on here has read the so called deal I did all 36 pages of it plus 8 pages of the pensions agreement so I do feel able to comment on this sham of an agreement. It did not will not stop what the whole action has been about the workplace issues without this it cannot be called an agreement only an agreement to disagree which if you do you invalidate the whole agreement! HOW CAN THIS BE CALLED AN AGREEMENT IT IS A SHAM

Vote NO then

[barrowc]

From the Processing & Logistics part:

5. Working together to develop, plan, trial, evaluate and, where appropriate, deploy efficient and inventive duty arrangements which aim to balance employee aspirations with our joint commitment to align resource to workload. Consideration will be given to inventive duty arrangements such as flexible working across the working week and the matching of resource to seasonal movements in workload;

We obviously already have the 30 minutes flexibility so what's this additional flexible working idea?

Also:

Damp squid springs to mind

Damp squib (a small explosive, older ones didn't work if you got them wet) not damp squid (which would probably be on the wet side given that they live in the sea)