LTB 815/13 National Agreement Reached

[k979aaa]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

[mojothefishmo]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

Why would they???? And anyway we only work 39 hrs so they can change what they like its still 39 hrs

[trythat]

Ha ha calm down, I only said it because I remember the white arrow drivers telling me how the used to wrap their trackers in tin foil to disrupt the signal. Christ royal mail managers can't answer a phone never mind track and check 80,000 PDAs everyday.

The London buses have telemetry in their cabs that checks their every move.
There is a whole division of people dedicated to checking the whereabouts of every bus every minute, ensuring they are where they are supposed to be and giving the customer accurate information of when the next bus is due.
I don't care if they want to track my every move from the start of my delivery to the end of my delivery. I don't do anything worth talking about.

It happens all over the country as well. I have an app on my phone called "First BUs" it tells me when the next bus is due at the stop I am at. Whilst I understand the fear people have of being tracked when not working, I think its something we need to get used to when we are. Unfortunately the benefits to customers outweigh the drawbacks to workers and thats where the focus is.

Mobile phones have the same thing in them, the ability to allow you to be tracked that is, either by transmitter mast (aka cell) or by GPS so what is the problem? As others have said just do your job properly and you've got nothing to worry about. Why take out the battery!? You won't achieve anything by doing that as it sends a signal anyway and by being "offline" they'll know something is up, if they were going to track you via a PDA. I can't see you doing that to your own mobile phone, can you?

I don't believe you track a phone that has no battery, so no battery means no tracking. I do infact turn off bluetooth, NFC, GPS and even sometimes I actually turn the phone so noone knows where I am or leave the phone at home.

TBH, I'm a little tired of people say do the job properly, as we know they are the people who are accused of all sorts. You've only got to look at all the H&S stuff RM have bought in, any sort of accident is your fault. If you've got a good DOM, make the most of it, because they will come under some immense pressure to save money, and all the office will be put under pressure, even the strong ones.

[Postie45]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

scaring people with a worst case scenario probably not the most honest approach. And no one said we cant strike, just that this agreement would be void with a strike if im understanding it correctly.

[mojothefishmo]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

scaring people with a worst case scenario probably not the most honest approach. And no one said we cant strike, just that this agreement would be void with a strike if im understanding it correctly.

Sense at last!!!

[Wild Rover]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder
you WILL work longer

FFS, just work to your time. that way you are not worked harder or longer. Is that concept so difficult to understand?

[wabbithunta]

Ha ha calm down, I only said it because I remember the white arrow drivers telling me how the used to wrap their trackers in tin foil to disrupt the signal. Christ royal mail managers can't answer a phone never mind track and check 80,000 PDAs everyday.

The London buses have telemetry in their cabs that checks their every move.
There is a whole division of people dedicated to checking the whereabouts of every bus every minute, ensuring they are where they are supposed to be and giving the customer accurate information of when the next bus is due.
I don't care if they want to track my every move from the start of my delivery to the end of my delivery. I don't do anything worth talking about.

It happens all over the country as well. I have an app on my phone called "First BUs" it tells me when the next bus is due at the stop I am at. Whilst I understand the fear people have of being tracked when not working, I think its something we need to get used to when we are. Unfortunately the benefits to customers outweigh the drawbacks to workers and thats where the focus is.

Mobile phones have the same thing in them, the ability to allow you to be tracked that is, either by transmitter mast (aka cell) or by GPS so what is the problem? As others have said just do your job properly and you've got nothing to worry about. Why take out the battery!? You won't achieve anything by doing that as it sends a signal anyway and by being "offline" they'll know something is up, if they were going to track you via a PDA. I can't see you doing that to your own mobile phone, can you?

I don't believe you track a phone that has no battery, so no battery means no tracking. I do infact turn off bluetooth, NFC, GPS and even sometimes I actually turn the phone so noone knows where I am or leave the phone at home.

TBH, I'm a little tired of people say do the job properly, as we know they are the people who are accused of all sorts. You've only got to look at all the H&S stuff RM have bought in, any sort of accident is your fault. If you've got a good DOM, make the most of it, because they will come under some immense pressure to save money, and all the office will be put under pressure, even the strong ones.

So what's the point in having a mobile phone if you don't use it or leave it at home?
If and when you do use it, that is you actually have it on you and switched on it still shows your location, via the cell system, the same thing happens for PDAs too as they have a phone in them for emergency use.

[twiddledumb]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

[RTP]

Ha ha calm down, I only said it because I remember the white arrow drivers telling me how the used to wrap their trackers in tin foil to disrupt the signal. Christ royal mail managers can't answer a phone never mind track and check 80,000 PDAs everyday.

The London buses have telemetry in their cabs that checks their every move.
There is a whole division of people dedicated to checking the whereabouts of every bus every minute, ensuring they are where they are supposed to be and giving the customer accurate information of when the next bus is due.
I don't care if they want to track my every move from the start of my delivery to the end of my delivery. I don't do anything worth talking about.

It happens all over the country as well. I have an app on my phone called "First BUs" it tells me when the next bus is due at the stop I am at. Whilst I understand the fear people have of being tracked when not working, I think its something we need to get used to when we are. Unfortunately the benefits to customers outweigh the drawbacks to workers and thats where the focus is.

Mobile phones have the same thing in them, the ability to allow you to be tracked that is, either by transmitter mast (aka cell) or by GPS so what is the problem? As others have said just do your job properly and you've got nothing to worry about. Why take out the battery!? You won't achieve anything by doing that as it sends a signal anyway and by being "offline" they'll know something is up, if they were going to track you via a PDA. I can't see you doing that to your own mobile phone, can you?

I don't believe you track a phone that has no battery, so no battery means no tracking. I do infact turn off bluetooth, NFC, GPS and even sometimes I actually turn the phone so noone knows where I am or leave the phone at home.

TBH, I'm a little tired of people say do the job properly, as we know they are the people who are accused of all sorts. You've only got to look at all the H&S stuff RM have bought in, any sort of accident is your fault. If you've got a good DOM, make the most of it, because they will come under some immense pressure to save money, and all the office will be put under pressure, even the strong ones.

Doesn't bother me either the tracking. What it will do eventually is highlight those that have spare time and there will come a point when they'll either have to work their hours or will eventually be conducted for taking the piss and that may include consistently not being visible via the PDA. I just hope that the information is used to also highlight that some rounds are too big and not to jump on the postie for being too slow.

[Postie45]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

why are we predicting the need to strike ? if RM doesnt meet its obligations under this deal then its a legal matter for the courts not something we would have to go on strike for.

[wabbithunta]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder
you WILL work longer

FFS, just work to your time. that way you are not worked harder or longer. Is that concept so difficult to understand?

It seems it is so for some people. Especially those who whinge and whine about being worked too hard and some of them are the type that come in an hour early to throw off their deliveries and then rush out the door and then wonder why we're in the position we're in now.

Work your hours, start and finish at the correct times and do the job correctly, tell them you're cutting off and then watch as your manager sees a few Yorks of mail each day begin to grow to an even larger amount over the week and then watch the "big boys" come into the office to take a gander at the problem - and find none - as all the packets/mail etc that hasn't been delivered gets taken for a ride for a few hours to make it all seem like everything is fine and then brought back after they've gone.
That's the position you should be in.. not work harder and work longer and clear it all and still have issues on deliveries.

[dvbuk55]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

scaring people with a worst case scenario probably not the most honest approach. And no one said we cant strike, just that this agreement would be void with a strike if im understanding it correctly.

OK, here's not the worst case scenario, should there be cause for the protections to be lifted for ANY of the reasons shown then the agreement isn't negated only the protections and RM can then institute any changes they wish and then the CWU could call a strike but do you think they will? I think they have too much vested interest in the role they have carved out for themselves with RM. Now ask yourself this, all this flannel about ground breaking legal paraphernalia especially the get out clauses, do you think it was the CWU who instigated that?

[Postie45]

In 2014+ Royal Mail

you WILL work harder
you WILL work longer

FFS, just work to your time. that way you are not worked harder or longer. Is that concept so difficult to understand?

It seems it is so for some people. Especially those who whinge and whine about being worked too hard and some of them are the type that come in an hour early to throw off their deliveries and then rush out the door and then wonder why we're in the position we're in now.

Work your hours, start and finish at the correct times and do the job correctly, tell them you're cutting off and then watch as your manager sees a few Yorks of mail each day begin to grow to an even larger amount over the week and then watch the "big boys" come into the office to take a gander at the problem - and find none - as all the packets/mail etc that hasn't been delivered gets taken for a ride for a few hours to make it all seem like everything is fine and then brought back after they've gone.
That's the position you should be in.. not work harder and work longer and clear it all and still have issues on deliveries.

i agree this is what people should do, i think the CWUs main flaw is not having enough strong local reps who can back its members who feel under pressure from managers. Some reps are great, others not so much, this is why we see such a disparity of peoples work life experience on this forum.

[twiddledumb]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

If we strike, the agreement can be torn up. To me that makes the agreement useless, and not worth the paper it is written on. Because of that clause there is nothing stable or securing about the deal for posties at all. Because of that clause five years legally binding means nothing. It gives RM a huge get out of jail clause, which I am pretty sure they will use, and when they do use it, it means back to the negotiating table, but this time they will make sure that it happens when the union will not have the huge amount of leverage that they had for this negotiation.

If the deal is accepted, then I would be amazed if it lasted five years. If the deal is accepted I predict that we will be on a new deal before those five years runs out, with worse terms and conditions.

Hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

why are we predicting the need to strike ? if RM doesnt meet its obligations under this deal then its a legal matter for the courts not something we would have to go on strike for.

You are underestimating how sly RM can be, well now it's privatised you can double that and add a cherry on top. There are more loop holes than a bowl of polo's in this agreement, loopholes that I am sure RM lawyers and management will have no problem exploiting.
The truth of the matter is the union had everything a union could possible need to get a great deal for its members, and they screwed it up.

[Postie45]

I personally dont think its a terrible deal work your hrs go home ,that simple what i wanna know is ......what deal would people be happy with ,what did you really expect or want??????

What if they change your hours so you work all day Saturdays till 6pm not such a good deal if you cannot strike then is it?

scaring people with a worst case scenario probably not the most honest approach. And no one said we cant strike, just that this agreement would be void with a strike if im understanding it correctly.

OK, here's not the worst case scenario, should there be cause for the protections to be lifted for ANY of the reasons shown then the agreement isn't negated only the protections and RM can then institute any changes they wish and then the CWU could call a strike but do you think they will? I think they have too much vested interest in the role they have carved out for themselves with RM. Now ask yourself this, all this flannel about ground breaking legal paraphernalia especially the get out clauses, do you think it was the CWU who instigated that?

The agreement has "exceptional changes" clauses if theres major changes to RMs role. They appear to me to be pretty standard clauses, only kicking in if major changes occur to RM with regard to USO or if parts of the business become financially unsustainable.
I dont think we should expect to be wrapped in cotton wool if the business started to lose a ton of money, any other job you wouldnt be protected from this I dont see why we would think we have a special right to be keep current terms under these circumstances especially for such a long timescale. The CWU has improved our current terms under the status quo, I dont think we can expect them to do much more than that.
Are the clauses something the CWU instigated ? no of course not, but they realised they were reasonable if there were major changes to the business.