As you're well aware there's a huge difference between a recession, high unemployment and what we consider down the pan and a third world country destroyed by years of famine and civil war.
It's still down the pan though.
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Brexit
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Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
As you're well aware there's a huge difference between a recession, high unemployment and what we consider down the pan and a third world country destroyed by years of famine and civil war.
It's still down the pan though.
Only dead fish follow the current
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PostmanBitesDog
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: 17 Feb 2019, 15:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
Nigel Farage is not the brightest spark in the tool box. 
And this made me laugh:
More here:
Huffington Post UK (Dec. 21, 2020) ~ Nigel Farage Is Angry That France Has Taken Control Of Its Borders
And this made me laugh:
More here:
Huffington Post UK (Dec. 21, 2020) ~ Nigel Farage Is Angry That France Has Taken Control Of Its Borders
If there’s one thing the UK is learning at this very moment, it’s that it is most definitely possible to be part of the EU and control your own borders.
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PostmanBitesDog
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: 17 Feb 2019, 15:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
Today the European Union, tomorrow the world!
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k979aaa
- Posts: 12578
- Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
- Gender: Male
- Location: THE NORTH
Re: Brexit
A deal is not done till all 27 states sign it off.
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NWpostie
- Posts: 3577
- Joined: 04 Aug 2007, 17:32
- Gender: Male
- Location: Sector 001 Borg Collective, 6 o f 9
Re: Brexit
Read the summary of the agreement, seems we are out of both the Single Market and Custom Union, we have a form of free trade as a third country, the fish is a big compromise meaning 25% is retained by UK eventually after 5.5 years it will be exclusively British, not sure on the 12 mile exclusive economic zone that's standard with most coastlines, yet overall both sides got what they wanted, a win win.
Let's hope we can close this chapter and move on.
Let's hope we can close this chapter and move on.
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
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Tman
- Posts: 4108
- Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57
Re: Brexit
You're probably being naive there.
Every financial bump and hiccup for years to come will be put down to Brexit whether it was relevant or not. Those who voted to remain (and haven't yet accepted that it's over) won't waste the opportunity to do a Pte Fraser impression of "we're dooooomed" at every chance they get.
Every financial bump and hiccup for years to come will be put down to Brexit whether it was relevant or not. Those who voted to remain (and haven't yet accepted that it's over) won't waste the opportunity to do a Pte Fraser impression of "we're dooooomed" at every chance they get.
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NWpostie
- Posts: 3577
- Joined: 04 Aug 2007, 17:32
- Gender: Male
- Location: Sector 001 Borg Collective, 6 o f 9
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k979aaa
- Posts: 12578
- Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
- Gender: Male
- Location: THE NORTH
Re: Brexit
Well at least it is a comprehensive agreement deal of 1200 pages not just 12 pages of which half of one page is about what we get for implementing it for a pittance!
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k979aaa
- Posts: 12578
- Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
- Gender: Male
- Location: THE NORTH
Re: Brexit
When a great statesman came home declared Peace in our time everyone rejoiced that came to pass but a war 20 years ago will never happen again. How wrong was he and the media of the time and WW2 was looming waving a piece of paper be it one page or 12 or 1200 does not make a deal nor does the signing of a deal it is what is in that counts and the deal is binding not like RM's deals which they abrogate daily!
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Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
Define British.the fish is a big compromise meaning 25% is retained by UK eventually after 5.5 years it will be exclusively British
Caught by UK fishermen or caught by boats registered in the UK?
No other industry in the UK is exclusively British including farming so what's to stop a Spanish fishing company buying a couple of boats and registering them in the UK?
Only dead fish follow the current
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k979aaa
- Posts: 12578
- Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
- Gender: Male
- Location: THE NORTH
Re: Brexit
It's fish we do not have a taste for ie we don't eat them but we need a market to sell them!
Just wait till they tell us we don't have any workers rights yes folks the great revocation bill is rolling!
Just wait till they tell us we don't have any workers rights yes folks the great revocation bill is rolling!
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PostmanBitesDog
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: 17 Feb 2019, 15:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
For those who wish to have a copy of this dystopian draft:
Trade And Cooperation Agreement Between The European Union And The European Atomic Energy Community, Of The One Part, And The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland, Of The Other Part [Draft - 1,246 Pages ~ December 24, 2020]
Next up: #Scexit
Trade And Cooperation Agreement Between The European Union And The European Atomic Energy Community, Of The One Part, And The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland, Of The Other Part [Draft - 1,246 Pages ~ December 24, 2020]
Next up: #Scexit
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PostmanBitesDog
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: 17 Feb 2019, 15:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
(Dec. 27, 2020) A Brief History of Brexit – All 2,000 Years of It
Historian and novelist James Hawes charts the ups and downs of Britain’s relationship with Europe
Scottish soldiers help the new United Kingdom triumph at Waterloo
Historian and novelist James Hawes charts the ups and downs of Britain’s relationship with Europe
Scottish soldiers help the new United Kingdom triumph at Waterloo
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k979aaa
- Posts: 12578
- Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
- Gender: Male
- Location: THE NORTH
Re: Brexit
All the fireworks going off and now a our debts exceeding our GDP even Boris's dad wants to go to France suppose self exile is the way these days no masks in train stations or news agents in FRANCE. Because they do have newsagents left over there and trains and shops un thanks to your ill begotten son of a gun US donkey child who as PM has neglected this nation as do you Stanley that's another fine mess you got us into Johnson!
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PostmanBitesDog
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: 17 Feb 2019, 15:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Brexit
The New York Times (Jan. 1, 2021) ~ Britain Has Lost Itself
My grandparents, who fled Nazi Germany for Britain, would be heartbroken to see the country today.
By Peter Gumbel
At long last, it happened.
Shortly before midnight on Thursday, Britain completed its exit from the European Union, replacing a close 47-year long relationship with the continent with something far more distant. Now it will have to live through difficult years of separation that will sap its political vibrancy and diminish its role on the world stage. Though a trade deal was belatedly agreed, the economic fallout may be dire, too.
Yet for many, it’s also a deeply personal moment. My grandparents, who escaped Nazi Germany on the eve of World War II, found a home in Britain — to them, it was a beacon of light and hope. But they would be heartbroken to see it today. Inward, polarized and absurdly self-aggrandizing, Britain has lost itself. In sorrow, I mourn the passing of the country that was my family’s salvation.
My grandparents arrived in England in 1939 as stateless refugees. They felt not just gratitude for their immediate safety but also a deep attachment to the values of openness, decency and tolerance they found in their adopted homeland. Once the war ended, they became naturalized British citizens as soon as they could. In a letter to a friend, my grandfather praised the “generous hospitality and nearly unrestricted freedom” they enjoyed as migrants. They never shed their German accents but switched to speaking only in English.
My parents’ generation, in turn, gave their all for the country that took them in. They inevitably faced some anti-German sentiment in the early postwar years, but simply ignored it. My uncle, who arrived in Britain on a Kindertransport train when he was 15 years old, joined a commando unit of the British Army composed of German refugees and was killed on a Normandy beach on D-Day, aged 21. In the 1980s, my father, a businessman, and my aunt, a radiographer, were both decorated by Queen Elizabeth II for their contributions to the country. “After all the trauma of leaving Germany I had struck fresh roots in England,” my father wrote in a private memoir. “We had found a new home in every sense of the word.”
But the openness and tolerance that made the country a safe haven for them are in retreat. The vote to leave the European Union in 2016 and the surge of national exceptionalism that accompanied it revealed deeply held prejudices about migrants. Xenophobia and racism, presumed to be banished to the margins of public life, made an ugly return to the mainstream. And anyone with an international mind-set was suddenly at risk of being tarred, in the words of the former prime minister, Theresa May, as a “citizen of nowhere” — an ominous phrase not just for a family like mine that was once stateless.
Since the 2016 referendum, the government has alienated many of the 3.5 million European Union nationals in the country, cynically treating them as bargaining chips in their negotiations with the bloc. Such people make a big contribution to British life — not just as City bankers, as they are often caricatured, but also as frontline medical staff, university teachers and entrepreneurs. Without them, the country would be greatly diminished. Alarmingly, large numbers appear to have left in 2020.
And political rot has set in. Led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the government plays fast and loose with parliamentary procedure and international treaties. When Moody’s downgraded Britain’s credit rating in October, it cited the “diminished” quality of British executive and legislative institutions. Ethical standards have taken a tumble, too, with the government turning a blind eye to workplace harassment of civil servants and cronyism creeping into the award of public contracts through the pandemic.
I take no joy in this state of affairs, and neither do many fellow Britons. The country is just as divided as the United States has been over President Trump. Nearly half the voters opposed Brexit in the referendum: Many are as angry and disillusioned as I am. But unlike in the United States, where the election of Joe Biden offers a reprieve from the crassness and cruelty of Mr. Trump, Brexit cannot be undone. There will be no turning back.
My American friends tell me that, to them at least, I am quintessentially British, a devoted tea drinker and fan of Marmite, Monty Python and fair play. Yet I am also strongly pro-European, a feeling reinforced by having lived in several European countries over the years. The two identities always seemed to me to be complementary. But Brexit made it impossible to be British and European at the same time. I felt I had been orphaned.
Fearful of losing my connection with the continent and alarmed by the direction in which Britain appeared to be heading, I took a decision I never dreamed I would even consider: I applied for German citizenship. As the grandson of refugees who lost their citizenship for racial or religious reasons, I was allowed to do so by the postwar German constitution.
I didn’t take the decision lightly. I can never forget what happened to my family; my great-aunt perished in Auschwitz and several other cousins died in the Holocaust. But I can also recognize how much Germany has changed and the lengths to which it has gone to atone for the atrocities of the Third Reich.
Indeed, roles have been reversed in some ways: Today, it is Germany that opens its door to refugees and whose chancellor, Angela Merkel, is outspoken in defense of global values and embodies decency and respect. By contrast, the Britain that sheltered and nurtured my family is a sad shadow of its former self.
After 80 years, I feel ready to close a cycle of history. British by birth, I am European by heritage and conviction — and now have an unambiguously European nationality to prove it. I am still proud to be British, but I am also proud to be German. I think my grandparents and parents would approve.
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Peter Gumbel (@petergumbel) is a journalist and the author, most recently, of “Citizens of Everywhere: Searching for Identity in the Age of Brexit.”
My grandparents, who fled Nazi Germany for Britain, would be heartbroken to see the country today.
By Peter Gumbel
At long last, it happened.
Shortly before midnight on Thursday, Britain completed its exit from the European Union, replacing a close 47-year long relationship with the continent with something far more distant. Now it will have to live through difficult years of separation that will sap its political vibrancy and diminish its role on the world stage. Though a trade deal was belatedly agreed, the economic fallout may be dire, too.
Yet for many, it’s also a deeply personal moment. My grandparents, who escaped Nazi Germany on the eve of World War II, found a home in Britain — to them, it was a beacon of light and hope. But they would be heartbroken to see it today. Inward, polarized and absurdly self-aggrandizing, Britain has lost itself. In sorrow, I mourn the passing of the country that was my family’s salvation.
My grandparents arrived in England in 1939 as stateless refugees. They felt not just gratitude for their immediate safety but also a deep attachment to the values of openness, decency and tolerance they found in their adopted homeland. Once the war ended, they became naturalized British citizens as soon as they could. In a letter to a friend, my grandfather praised the “generous hospitality and nearly unrestricted freedom” they enjoyed as migrants. They never shed their German accents but switched to speaking only in English.
My parents’ generation, in turn, gave their all for the country that took them in. They inevitably faced some anti-German sentiment in the early postwar years, but simply ignored it. My uncle, who arrived in Britain on a Kindertransport train when he was 15 years old, joined a commando unit of the British Army composed of German refugees and was killed on a Normandy beach on D-Day, aged 21. In the 1980s, my father, a businessman, and my aunt, a radiographer, were both decorated by Queen Elizabeth II for their contributions to the country. “After all the trauma of leaving Germany I had struck fresh roots in England,” my father wrote in a private memoir. “We had found a new home in every sense of the word.”
But the openness and tolerance that made the country a safe haven for them are in retreat. The vote to leave the European Union in 2016 and the surge of national exceptionalism that accompanied it revealed deeply held prejudices about migrants. Xenophobia and racism, presumed to be banished to the margins of public life, made an ugly return to the mainstream. And anyone with an international mind-set was suddenly at risk of being tarred, in the words of the former prime minister, Theresa May, as a “citizen of nowhere” — an ominous phrase not just for a family like mine that was once stateless.
Since the 2016 referendum, the government has alienated many of the 3.5 million European Union nationals in the country, cynically treating them as bargaining chips in their negotiations with the bloc. Such people make a big contribution to British life — not just as City bankers, as they are often caricatured, but also as frontline medical staff, university teachers and entrepreneurs. Without them, the country would be greatly diminished. Alarmingly, large numbers appear to have left in 2020.
And political rot has set in. Led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the government plays fast and loose with parliamentary procedure and international treaties. When Moody’s downgraded Britain’s credit rating in October, it cited the “diminished” quality of British executive and legislative institutions. Ethical standards have taken a tumble, too, with the government turning a blind eye to workplace harassment of civil servants and cronyism creeping into the award of public contracts through the pandemic.
I take no joy in this state of affairs, and neither do many fellow Britons. The country is just as divided as the United States has been over President Trump. Nearly half the voters opposed Brexit in the referendum: Many are as angry and disillusioned as I am. But unlike in the United States, where the election of Joe Biden offers a reprieve from the crassness and cruelty of Mr. Trump, Brexit cannot be undone. There will be no turning back.
My American friends tell me that, to them at least, I am quintessentially British, a devoted tea drinker and fan of Marmite, Monty Python and fair play. Yet I am also strongly pro-European, a feeling reinforced by having lived in several European countries over the years. The two identities always seemed to me to be complementary. But Brexit made it impossible to be British and European at the same time. I felt I had been orphaned.
Fearful of losing my connection with the continent and alarmed by the direction in which Britain appeared to be heading, I took a decision I never dreamed I would even consider: I applied for German citizenship. As the grandson of refugees who lost their citizenship for racial or religious reasons, I was allowed to do so by the postwar German constitution.
I didn’t take the decision lightly. I can never forget what happened to my family; my great-aunt perished in Auschwitz and several other cousins died in the Holocaust. But I can also recognize how much Germany has changed and the lengths to which it has gone to atone for the atrocities of the Third Reich.
Indeed, roles have been reversed in some ways: Today, it is Germany that opens its door to refugees and whose chancellor, Angela Merkel, is outspoken in defense of global values and embodies decency and respect. By contrast, the Britain that sheltered and nurtured my family is a sad shadow of its former self.
After 80 years, I feel ready to close a cycle of history. British by birth, I am European by heritage and conviction — and now have an unambiguously European nationality to prove it. I am still proud to be British, but I am also proud to be German. I think my grandparents and parents would approve.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Gumbel (@petergumbel) is a journalist and the author, most recently, of “Citizens of Everywhere: Searching for Identity in the Age of Brexit.”