Royal Mail/CWU Contact Tracing and testing

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 07 May 2020, 18:40

As we move onto the next phase of Coronavirus testing regime we're probably going to have to deal with contact tracing, testing and isolation.

What that will likely mean is that you'll install an app and if you're in contact with someone who tests positive (there will probably be an amount of contact time as a trigger) your app will notify you and you'll be expected to isolate for 14 days. Only those contacts showing symptoms are likely to be tested so you could be isolating several times.

This is what Nicola Sturgeon had to say on the subject.

Some people could have to self-isolate several times in succession, she said. They may not know the person who was infected but would be told by NHS contact-tracing staff they had to remain at home for a fortnight.

Sturgeon said: “You might go back to work for a week and be contacted again, and told actually someone else has got it. It is not impossible that all of us will find ourselves being contacted and told to isolate perhaps on multiple occasions

Given that this is a government and public health mandated response to a 'positive contact' the union must surely push to have the 'multiple isolation' investigation trigger removed from Royal Mail's coronavirus attendance guidance.

Post by **Murdoch** » 07 May 2020, 18:54

I believe the apps work by pinging the Bluetooth of the smartphone, so if you're in Bluetooth range of another person with the app, it will log that.

We as posties could have some serious fun with that. By all going about our rounds for a week, and then all say we've tested positive. Every person with the app would get a notification...

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 07 May 2020, 19:09

Murdoch wrote:I believe the apps work by pinging the Bluetooth of the smartphone, so if you're in Bluetooth range of another person with the app, it will log that.

We as posties could have some serious fun with that. By all going about our rounds for a week, and then all say we've tested positive. Every person with the app would get a notification...

The app will only notify you if you've been in contact with someone who has tested positive, that contact will probably be set around the 10 minutes of close contact mark, the trigger will come from the NHS once someone's test comes back positive.

Sorry to blow out your candles.

Post by **Murdoch** » 07 May 2020, 19:18

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Murdoch wrote:I believe the apps work by pinging the Bluetooth of the smartphone, so if you're in Bluetooth range of another person with the app, it will log that.

We as posties could have some serious fun with that. By all going about our rounds for a week, and then all say we've tested positive. Every person with the app would get a notification...
The app will only notify you if you've been in contact with someone who has tested positive, that contact will probably be set around the 10 minutes of close contact mark, the trigger will come from the NHS once someone's test comes back positive.

Sorry to blow out your candles.

I was only kidding, obviously.

Where you getting the 10 minute figure from btw?

Also, there's no way for the app to know how close the contact is. Bluetooth range in smartphones is around the 10 meter mark, give or take. Which is way farther than "close contact".

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 07 May 2020, 19:37

Close and sustained contact guidelines for viral transmission are normally set at 6 feet and 10 minutes.

That's what the NHS use in hospitals so I'm assuming it's what the app would use. It is however just an educated guess.

Whether the app would be smart enough to use Bluetooth signal strength to measure it I'm not sure but cellular location is much more accurate and can pinpoint you up to a couple of feet even in buildings where bluetooth can be unreliable. A mixture of both technologies might be what's used.

Post by **Murdoch** » 07 May 2020, 19:46

Woody Guthrie wrote:Close and sustained contact guidelines for viral transmission are normally set at 6 feet and 10 minutes.

That's what the NHS use in hospitals so I'm assuming it's what the app would use. It is however just an educated guess.

Whether the app would be smart enough to use Bluetooth signal strength to measure it I'm not sure but cellular location is much more accurate and can pinpoint you up to a couple of feet even in buildings where bluetooth can be unreliable. A mixture of both technologies might be what's used.

Yeah, that's true they could throw signal strength into the mix, but that's extremely unreliable. Two people sitting right next to each other, one with a phone in a bag, and the other in their pocket with wallet and keys. Will probably have a similar signal strength to two people standing 15 meters apart, both holding up their phones.

And to say there are a lot of privacy concerns if we start using GPS and cell tower information along with Bluetooth data, is an understatement. We'd just have built the biggest state surveillance system you could possibly imagine.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 07 May 2020, 20:22

We'd just have built the biggest state surveillance system you could possibly imagine.

To be fair it's already built and used extensively by the police and in the commercial world with dating apps, find my phone and just about every app that asks for your location.

The important thing with the app is how much information it harvests from your phone, what it retains and what happens to that data but there are plenty of less savoury apps out there harvesting your data. If it bothers people that much they can always buy a burner and use and dispose like any self respecting drug dealer.

I have a son who works in cyber security and he laughs at people suddenly getting worried about state surveillance , he says we're 20 years too late to worry about it now.

Post by **Murdoch** » 07 May 2020, 20:50

Woody Guthrie wrote:
We'd just have built the biggest state surveillance system you could possibly imagine.
To be fair it's already built and used extensively by the police and in the commercial world with dating apps, find my phone and just about every app that asks for your location.

The important thing with the app is how much information it harvests from your phone, what it retains and what happens to that data but there are plenty of less savoury apps out there harvesting your data. If it bothers people that much they can always buy a burner and use and dispose like any self respecting drug dealer.

I have a son who works in cyber security and he laughs at people suddenly getting worried about state surveillance , he says we're 20 years too late to worry about it now.

Your son sounds like one of those, "if you've got nothing to hide" types. Just because something has existed for a while, is no reason to believe it will always be benign, and that it's not worth keeping in check. We've known about anthropogenic climate change for decades, the more people that suddenly realise it's an issue the better as far as I'm concerned, as we might force some change. Laughing at them with some sort of superior "I knew this years ago, and there's no point caring now" attitude is infantile.

The time when state surveillance overreach should have been reigned in, was when the Snowden whistleblowing, revealed, that yes, the UK was illegally obtaining all of our data, and illegally sharing and accessing it. The reaction of our legislators was extremely weak, because the public reaction was really weak. The sad truth is, people in the UK have traded their privacy for Facebook likes.

The thing about this contact tracing app, is that it shows how normalised people have become to overt surveillance, many just willingly accept it.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 07 May 2020, 20:57

Your son sounds like one of those, "if you've got nothing to hide" types.

No he's one of those "If you want to hide there's a multitude of ways I can show you to hide" types.

Post by **Murdoch** » 07 May 2020, 20:59

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Your son sounds like one of those, "if you've got nothing to hide" types.
No he's one of those "If you want to hide there's a multitude of ways I can show you to hide" types.

Sounds like me and him would get along fine then

plodplodplod · Post by **plodplodplod** » 08 May 2020, 08:13

Murdoch wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Your son sounds like one of those, "if you've got nothing to hide" types.
No he's one of those "If you want to hide there's a multitude of ways I can show you to hide" types.
Sounds like me and him would get along fine then

get a room you two

Post by **HTPostman** » 08 May 2020, 08:49

Maybe we could get the app on our PDA, what could possibly go wrong

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 08 May 2020, 12:02

HTPostman wrote:Maybe we could get the app on our PDA, what could possibly go wrong

There's no reason why it can't be installed on the PDAs as they are currently being used to track us and don't they use Bluetooth tech??

Just imagine someone with the virus logging in on their PDA and then standing in front of a fridge full of PDAs for ten minutes. We will all be 'infected'

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 08 May 2020, 12:19

I'm not too worried about the "Big Brother" aspect, as I'm assuming they think EVERYONE has a Smart Phone? Are they going to provide them for those that haven't? Perhaps they'll be more State Aid to help you purchase one?

Post by **HTPostman** » 09 May 2020, 08:56

postslippete wrote:
HTPostman wrote:Maybe we could get the app on our PDA, what could possibly go wrong
There's no reason why it can't be installed on the PDAs as they are currently being used to track us and don't they use Bluetooth tech??

Just imagine someone with the virus logging in on their PDA and then standing in front of a fridge full of PDAs for ten minutes. We will all be 'infected'

Just image if CWU and RM got hold of the idea. Dave and Terry would be putting us forward to scan and Bluetooth connect with everyone on our rounds. RM would disagree then say we have to knock on 20% of doors a day and ask 5 CV19 related questions which are to be filled in on the PDA. Which will crash each time. And you won’t get any extra time to do it :D