key workers

[twiddledumb]

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

Even if you were sarcastic, I feel for you, I`ve been struggling for years but recently I became smarter and informed myself and I realised life can be easier if I take a loan from our credit union commsave, pay all my debts and credit cards and pay commsave straight from my payslip at a low rate and low weekly payment, suddenly I had money left in my bank, increasing every week.
Then I went to a car dealer and bought a newer and better car for less than £100 per month for the next 5 years, much better than the old junk I had wich was a money pit, much cheaper insurance, low petrol costs, all the pros.

Also did a bit more OT each week and guess what, I`m in the 2500 per month bracket but I have a 2 beds and a decent car and I don`t struggle from pay check to paycheck.

Also, I`m not being sarcastic, no need, take my advice and better yourself or not.

So you think to better myself I need to work over 50+ hours overtime a week just so I can get to the same amount of income as a non essential worker who is sitting at home. Somehow I don't think that will make me better, tough it might lead me to an early grave. Anyway, thanks for the advice it was really useless and unhelpful.

[Murdoch]

There is a strong chance we are heading for recession but I believe the government has absolutely done the right thing to mitigate its depth. This will not last forever. We will come out of it. What the government has essentially done is placed a temporary pause button on the sectors of the economy effected. To do nothing and have wholesale bankruptcies and house repossessions would be far far worse and totally unnecessary. Especially considering they believe this will come in waves. It is likely we will return to a state of semi normality and then be placed back into restricted living. It is surely better that companies are able to keep trained staff on furlough ready to return to their positions when the time is right.

Imagine a company like RM had to let everyone go and then re-hire an entire new workforce. It just doesn't make sense to do that. We work in an industry that doesn't really need much training either. For more specialist roles that would be incredibly disruptive for a country that wants to get back on its feet as quickly as possible.

I just read an article, that suggests the UK economy is about to contract by 15%. Which is an insane level for a single quarter. Unemployment is set to rise to 7% in one quarter too (so that's 2008 levels of unemployment).

I wasn't for one minute suggesting that everybody gets fired, or we just let everybody default on their debts. I was suggesting that there are better and fairer polices that could press "pause" on the economy.

It's interesting that the financial crash of 2008 was a host of multiple problems, which exposed many failings of the financial system, most of which haven't been fixed. But this time, the consequences may well be alot worse, and the problem is really straightforward. It's that the economy doesn't have a pause mechanism.

[Ren Hoëk]

There is a strong chance we are heading for recession but I believe the government has absolutely done the right thing to mitigate its depth. This will not last forever. We will come out of it. What the government has essentially done is placed a temporary pause button on the sectors of the economy effected. To do nothing and have wholesale bankruptcies and house repossessions would be far far worse and totally unnecessary. Especially considering they believe this will come in waves. It is likely we will return to a state of semi normality and then be placed back into restricted living. It is surely better that companies are able to keep trained staff on furlough ready to return to their positions when the time is right.

Imagine a company like RM had to let everyone go and then re-hire an entire new workforce. It just doesn't make sense to do that. We work in an industry that doesn't really need much training either. For more specialist roles that would be incredibly disruptive for a country that wants to get back on its feet as quickly as possible.

I just read an article, that suggests the UK economy is about to contract by 15%. Which is an insane level for a single quarter. Unemployment is set to rise to 7% in one quarter too (so that's 2008 levels of unemployment).

I wasn't for one minute suggesting that everybody gets fired, or we just let everybody default on their debts. I was suggesting that there are better and fairer polices that could press "pause" on the economy.

It's interesting that the financial crash of 2008 was a host of multiple problems, which exposed many failings of the financial system, most of which haven't been fixed. But this time, the consequences may well be alot worse, and the problem is really straightforward. It's that the economy doesn't have a pause mechanism.

If it only contacts by 15% in one quarter il be incredibly surprised. The economy has all but stopped. The same goes for unemployment but that unemployment figure will largely be made up of retail and hospitality. That work force isn't as rigid as others with many people who work in it in a much more flexible position considering their age and likelihood of exposure to high debt such as a mortgage being lower. Not to say their aren't people who are, just less likely.

I don't know a fairer way they could quickly implement a rescue package for these people. Its happening now and needs addressing now. Which is what this does. If it does go on for a prolonged period of time then I would expect them to re-evaluate it. In fact, I suspect they already are planning for it.

[Murdoch]

If it only contacts by 15% in one quarter il be incredibly surprised. The economy has all but stopped. The same goes for unemployment but that unemployment figure will largely be made up of retail and hospitality. That work force isn't as rigid as others with many people who work in it in a much more flexible position considering their age and likelihood of exposure to high debt such as a mortgage being lower. Not to say their aren't people who are, just less likely.

I don't know a fairer way they could quickly implement a rescue package for these people. Its happening now and needs addressing now. Which is what this does. If it does go on for a prolonged period of time then I would expect them to re-evaluate it. In fact, I suspect they already are planning for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tput-by-15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It might not sound like that much of a contraction, only 15%, when on the ground it looks like things have all but stopped. But for context, the largest quarterly drop in 2008 was 2.2%. I still think many people are underestimating just how much damage this is going to do. Especially considering the Brexit transition period ends at the end of the year, lol.

I've said it many times now, a temporary Universal Basic income is the fairest, quickest and simplest way to deal with this sort of thing. However, the UK has invented a complex method of only giving certain people huge amounts of state handouts, via the companies laying them off (only if they retain them), or from the previous 3 years profits of the self employed. It's a bureaucratic nightmare to implement this, all at a time when there are hundreds of thousands having to claim universal credit, which also has a lag of 5 weeks before anybody gets any money.

So, PAYE workers won't get their 80% of wages for doing no work money till end of April, the self-employed won't until May, and if you're unlucky enough to have to rely on universal credit, then you'll also be skint for at least 5 weeks, and then be paid absolute peanuts, because you weren't lucky enough to be retained by your employer.

[twiddledumb]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

Good chat. Still not getting it. Still not listening. With people like you we truly are all f****d. Night night.

Oh I get your point, you think the richer you are the more money you deserve from the government or should I say the tax payer, because it seems that you think the richer you are the more you need to spend because you have a higher standard of living. Then you call me jealous for saying that if the government want to hand out money then it should be for everyone and it should be the same amount £1000 or something like that or nothing at all. Basically you think the low paid should be getting screwed while the rich get everything AGAIN. Anyway good night Rico, go count the millions in your bunker.

As I thought. Clinically stupid.

Whatever Rico, call me what you like if it makes you feel superior. but we both know your all mouth with very little substance. Again goodnight, if you count all that free money dropping into rich peoples bank accounts it might send you to sleep quicker.

[sindba]

Recession?! No.

We are heading for the mother of all depressions. Things won't ever return to pre-covid "normal" for any adult alive today, believe me.

[Ren Hoëk]

If it only contacts by 15% in one quarter il be incredibly surprised. The economy has all but stopped. The same goes for unemployment but that unemployment figure will largely be made up of retail and hospitality. That work force isn't as rigid as others with many people who work in it in a much more flexible position considering their age and likelihood of exposure to high debt such as a mortgage being lower. Not to say their aren't people who are, just less likely.

I don't know a fairer way they could quickly implement a rescue package for these people. Its happening now and needs addressing now. Which is what this does. If it does go on for a prolonged period of time then I would expect them to re-evaluate it. In fact, I suspect they already are planning for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tput-by-15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It might not sound like that much of a contraction, only 15%, when on the ground it looks like things have all but stopped. But for context, the largest quarterly drop in 2008 was 2.2%. I still think many people are underestimating just how much damage this is going to do. Especially considering the Brexit transition period ends at the end of the year, lol.

I've said it many times now, a temporary Universal Basic income is the fairest, quickest and simplest way to deal with this sort of thing. However, the UK has invented a complex method of only giving certain people huge amounts of state handouts, via the companies laying them off (only if they retain them), or from the previous 3 years profits of the self employed. It's a bureaucratic nightmare to implement this, all at a time when there are hundreds of thousands having to claim universal credit, which also has a lag of 5 weeks before anybody gets any money.

So, PAYE workers won't get their 80% of wages for doing no work money till end of April, the self-employed won't until May, and if you're unlucky enough to have to rely on universal credit, then you'll also be skint for at least 5 weeks, and then be paid absolute peanuts, because you weren't lucky enough to be retained by your employer.

That 15% will likely be and hopefully be just a short sharp shock to the economy.

A UBI, If we are talking about that, Wouldn't be the answer because peoples income would shrink back to just the UBI which wouldn't leave them with enough to meet their financial obligations. Where as what the government is doing does. Its fairly easy to implement though PAYE as would self employed people as it would be an average of the last 3 years of income on their tax returns.

[Ren Hoëk]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

Good chat. Still not getting it. Still not listening. With people like you we truly are all f****d. Night night.

Oh I get your point, you think the richer you are the more money you deserve from the government or should I say the tax payer, because it seems that you think the richer you are the more you need to spend because you have a higher standard of living. Then you call me jealous for saying that if the government want to hand out money then it should be for everyone and it should be the same amount £1000 or something like that or nothing at all. Basically you think the low paid should be getting screwed while the rich get everything AGAIN. Anyway good night Rico, go count the millions in your bunker.

As I thought. Clinically stupid.

Whatever Rico, call me what you like if it makes you feel superior. but we both know your all mouth with very little substance. Again goodnight, if you count all that free money dropping into rich peoples bank accounts it might send you to sleep quicker.

Yes Yes, Someone with the smallest ounce of intelligence and ability to read around a subject and apply critical thinking must be a manager or RIco. Yawn.

Nice to see that not only are you a deeply jealous person but also have an inferiority complex.

As for substance, What are you doing? Iv already told my boss I wont be in due to RM being unwilling and unable to protect our health during this crisis. What are you doing other than crying about what other people have?

Again, an Income of £30k a year doesn't make you rich. For the many reasons already mentioned.

Get better soon.

[Murdoch]

Recession?! No.

We are heading for the mother of all depressions. Things won't ever return to pre-covid "normal" for any adult alive today, believe me.

A depression seems inevitable.

What's more worrisome, is how easily "liberal capitalist democracies" as Ren Hoëk put it, have switched with such ease into totalitarian police states. With one day of debate in Westminster, they passed a bill that removed basic civil liberties and freedoms of the entire nation, for two whole years. Politicians are openly talking about building out surveillance systems with private corporations, to enable them to "contact trace" in real time, and how we need global government solutions to this problem.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But even I feel that there is something fundamentally more sinister going on with the response to covid-19, most western nations allowed the virus to spread freely, and then they all followed virtually the same lockdown procedures. The next phase it seems, will be the roll out of yet more invasive mass surveillance.

For me, the response to covid-19 is shaping up to be far more destructive than the disease itself.

[Murdoch]

That 15% will likely be and hopefully be just a short sharp shock to the economy.

A UBI, If we are talking about that, Wouldn't be the answer because peoples income would shrink back to just the UBI which wouldn't leave them with enough to meet their financial obligations. Where as what the government is doing does. Its fairly easy to implement though PAYE as would self employed people as it would be an average of the last 3 years of income on their tax returns.

Exactly why I also suggested a repayment holiday. Why on earth should the taxpayer, pay people's personal debts. Fundamentally flawed logic, which will bankrupt the country, which is already skint as it is.

[POSTMAN]

There's also a recession coming, probably a big one. A lot of those non-key workers will be getting 0% or thereabouts of their salary in a few months time.

So, yeah. I don't really look upon them as the lucky ones.

A lot of them will go straight back to their jobs also. On top of that who says royal mail will not cut their workforce in a recession? Our jobs might be in line for the chop. The government should have gave everyone £1000 until the crisis ends. I mean look what the self employed are getting of the government ffs, a plumber, electrician, etc etc are getting big hand outs and they are richer than most professional jobs, I have never seen a poor tradesman and I deliver to lots of their houses on my round, they all have 4x4s and live in rich estates yet they get hand outs for sitting in the house, while low paid posties have to work, put our lives at risk and get swf from the government for doing it.

You are so out of touch of what happens outside your round, but then again, is it possible for you to be so out of touch?
Sorry to sound rude but come on ffs.

[Ren Hoëk]

That 15% will likely be and hopefully be just a short sharp shock to the economy.

A UBI, If we are talking about that, Wouldn't be the answer because peoples income would shrink back to just the UBI which wouldn't leave them with enough to meet their financial obligations. Where as what the government is doing does. Its fairly easy to implement though PAYE as would self employed people as it would be an average of the last 3 years of income on their tax returns.

Exactly why I also suggested a repayment holiday. Why on earth should the taxpayer, pay people's personal debts. Fundamentally flawed logic, which will bankrupt the country, which is already skint as it is.

Because the foundations of this countries economy, Like it or not, it based on debt and the housing market. I have already addressed why it is not a "Fundamentally flawed logic".

[Murdoch]

Because the foundations of this countries economy, Like it or not, it based on debt and the housing market. I have already addressed why it is not a "Fundamentally flawed logic".

I'm saying that during this paused economic phase. The people who cannot afford their mortgages, should get a basic income benefit, and a holiday on repayments. That means once the economy recovers, they will have added 6 months onto their mortgage, and some extra interest. I.e. they will have increased their own debt a bit.

Your argument, is that because our economy is based on a somewhat inflated housing market, and a large level of indebtedness, that the state needs to cover those debts (people cannot afford) while the economy is paused, and we all as tax payers have to pay for it later.

This is an absolutely bonkers take on economics.

[sindba]

The Govt has to try and keep the economy *as it is* intact.

Gordon Brown did it during the financial crash, it worked (god I wish he was still PM at this time!)

It's doing a decent job, but too much for the better-off employed, and not enough for lower paid "key workers" and the self employed.

None of it will work anyway, because we're in for a depression no-one has ever seen before. Hold tight!

[Murdoch]

The Govt has to try and keep the economy *as it is* intact.

Gordon Brown did it during the financial crash, it worked (god I wish he was still PM at this time!)

It's doing a decent job, but too much for the better-off employed, and not enough for lower paid "key workers" and the self employed.

None of it will work anyway, because we're in for a depression no-one has ever seen before. Hold tight!

Exactly right, they try to keep things as they are, even when something has failed.

The 2008 financial crash is the perfect example of how policies to bail out the banks, actually failed to produce a good recovery for the people. They protected a failed financial system.

Bailing out the banks cost the UK taxpayer £500 billion. The Austerity policies that followed, helped cause 130,000 preventable deaths, a 10 year stagnation of wages, exacerbated inequality. Meanwhile, the richest 0.01% increased their wealth by an amount similar to the bailouts. While the UK was leveraged with debt unheard of in peacetime, making itself deeply unequipped to deal with the next financial crisis, which is right at this moment.