key workers

[Murdoch]

My point was, If you care to comprehend the conversation, is that people having less doesn't mean you get more. It also makes more economic sense to help prop people up on an income they are a-custom to so they then can meet the financial obligations they are a-custom to instead of having masses of people not being able to meet debt obligations and going into bankruptcy. Can you not understand the negative impact that would have on the entire economy. Do you not think the government didn't consider that in their decision making.

My wife isn't on furlough either. She has been lucky enough to be able to work from home on full wage in an industry that is actually a real vital industry. Electricity distribution. She worked very hard to be in the position she is in. As have the other people you seem to be denigrating.

Grown up and work on that jealousy of yours. It really is quite ugly.

This isn't about jealousy. It's about an ill-conceived policy, that is divisive by nature.

The Tories had alternative options, they could have frozen mortgages and other debt, and offered a benefit more in line with the state pension (a UBI would have been my preference). But, no, they decided to pretend this is a 3 month problem, and gave non-key workers the most insane government hand-outs, precisely for the reason you mentioned, so they could maintain their existing "standard of living" and service their debts.

This fundamentally breaks the social contract we have in this country, that we all have to work, and play our part, and if you don't, you don't get as rewarded for it. Hundreds of thousands of people, are now earning more than many key-workers, and they're just chilling at home watching Netflix, moaning about the fact they can't get a haircut. And they have absolutely no incentive to do anything else, the young healthy and low risk could have been incentivised to do something useful.

[twiddledumb]

@Ren Hoëk
So what you seem to think is that when you lose a high paid job from now instead of signing on the dole and getting universal credit you need to get a higher paying benefit/bailout from the government to see you over until you get your next high paid job, I mean otherwise heaven forbid you would have to sell the bmw and downsize the 5 bedroom house. Funny that, for low paid workers who lose their job the government don't care about giving you extra money to help you pay your financial commitments you got lumbered with while you were working. FYI banks have given a grace period of 3 months+ for mortgage payments/loans so what commitments apart from keeping up the running of the 5 bedroom house and expansive gardens.

The only thing that is ugly mate is your I'm alright right jack screw the rest attitude. If the government want to give bailouts, it should be for everyone and everyone gets the same money like a UBI, but you think that is a low paid worker being jealous, which says everything about the type of person you are.

Are you thick or being purposefully obtuse? This isn't a normal situation. Given a normal situation these peoples jobs exist. They only don't exist because it has been mandated by the government. Once restrictions are lifted and demand returns to the market, the hope is that these people will be able to return to work. Not only that, People will have money in the bank to stimulate the economy and create demand with.

Having people wholesale declare bankruptcy would be a disaster as big as the one we are facing now, especially when it is totally avoidable. It would cost us personally and the country economically for this to happen.

£2500 a month does not make you rich. Its 30k a year. After tax you would be left with roughly £2k minus other deductions. Whilst that may sounds like allot to you, once you take into account mortgage payments, Bills, Probably a car (Something that is an essential requirement for some peoples employment/chances of employment) and what if you have a family of 5 to support on that sole income on top of that? It also depends on which part of the country you live in on how far that £2k will go.

£30k a year certainly doesn't afford you a 5 bed house and BMW.

Your viewpoint is far too simplistic and as such I can only assume you haven't really thought about your position.

"The only thing that is ugly mate is your I'm alright right jack screw the rest attitude."

You still, are totally missing the point. It really is not that hard to comprehend. If anything, that view point is more closely tied to your attitude than mine.

I am saying and I cant believe I have to say this AGAIN. PEOPLE HAVING LESS DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET MORE. Taking that money from them doesn't mean you get it. It just means they don't get it. For what? Spite and jealousy?

Why do you/we even need a bailout. Nothing has changed for us. Financially we are employed the same as last month. For now. That may change and we may find ourselves on this furlough payment. Who's to say our continued work wont be recognised financially when this is all said and done?

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

[Ren Hoëk]

My point was, If you care to comprehend the conversation, is that people having less doesn't mean you get more. It also makes more economic sense to help prop people up on an income they are a-custom to so they then can meet the financial obligations they are a-custom to instead of having masses of people not being able to meet debt obligations and going into bankruptcy. Can you not understand the negative impact that would have on the entire economy. Do you not think the government didn't consider that in their decision making.

My wife isn't on furlough either. She has been lucky enough to be able to work from home on full wage in an industry that is actually a real vital industry. Electricity distribution. She worked very hard to be in the position she is in. As have the other people you seem to be denigrating.

Grown up and work on that jealousy of yours. It really is quite ugly.

This isn't about jealousy. It's about an ill-conceived policy, that is divisive by nature.

The Tories had alternative options, they could have frozen mortgages and other debt, and offered a benefit more in line with the state pension (a UBI would have been my preference). But, no, they decided to pretend this is a 3 month problem, and gave non-key workers the most insane government hand-outs, precisely for the reason you mentioned, so they could maintain their existing "standard of living" and service their debts.

This fundamentally breaks the social contract we have in this country, that we all have to work, and play our part, and if you don't, you don't get as rewarded for it. Hundreds of thousands of people, are now earning more than many key-workers, and they're just chilling at home watching Netflix, moaning about the fact they can't get a haircut. And they have absolutely no incentive to do anything else, the young healthy and low risk could have been incentivised to do something useful.

I believe my last reply to Twiddledumb more than covers the points you've made. Other than the government do not have the authority to force the banks to do that. Nor should they. We live in a liberal capitalist democracy and if we want to keep it that way and we do considering Brexit is on the horizon, we will want to be able to attract free market investment.

The government DOES have the power to negate the problems this will cause by making these furlough payments. It also signals the governments faith in the British Economies resilience to bounce back.

[Ren Hoëk]

@Ren Hoëk
So what you seem to think is that when you lose a high paid job from now instead of signing on the dole and getting universal credit you need to get a higher paying benefit/bailout from the government to see you over until you get your next high paid job, I mean otherwise heaven forbid you would have to sell the bmw and downsize the 5 bedroom house. Funny that, for low paid workers who lose their job the government don't care about giving you extra money to help you pay your financial commitments you got lumbered with while you were working. FYI banks have given a grace period of 3 months+ for mortgage payments/loans so what commitments apart from keeping up the running of the 5 bedroom house and expansive gardens.

The only thing that is ugly mate is your I'm alright right jack screw the rest attitude. If the government want to give bailouts, it should be for everyone and everyone gets the same money like a UBI, but you think that is a low paid worker being jealous, which says everything about the type of person you are.

Are you thick or being purposefully obtuse? This isn't a normal situation. Given a normal situation these peoples jobs exist. They only don't exist because it has been mandated by the government. Once restrictions are lifted and demand returns to the market, the hope is that these people will be able to return to work. Not only that, People will have money in the bank to stimulate the economy and create demand with.

Having people wholesale declare bankruptcy would be a disaster as big as the one we are facing now, especially when it is totally avoidable. It would cost us personally and the country economically for this to happen.

£2500 a month does not make you rich. Its 30k a year. After tax you would be left with roughly £2k minus other deductions. Whilst that may sounds like allot to you, once you take into account mortgage payments, Bills, Probably a car (Something that is an essential requirement for some peoples employment/chances of employment) and what if you have a family of 5 to support on that sole income on top of that? It also depends on which part of the country you live in on how far that £2k will go.

£30k a year certainly doesn't afford you a 5 bed house and BMW.

Your viewpoint is far too simplistic and as such I can only assume you haven't really thought about your position.

"The only thing that is ugly mate is your I'm alright right jack screw the rest attitude."

You still, are totally missing the point. It really is not that hard to comprehend. If anything, that view point is more closely tied to your attitude than mine.

I am saying and I cant believe I have to say this AGAIN. PEOPLE HAVING LESS DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET MORE. Taking that money from them doesn't mean you get it. It just means they don't get it. For what? Spite and jealousy?

Why do you/we even need a bailout. Nothing has changed for us. Financially we are employed the same as last month. For now. That may change and we may find ourselves on this furlough payment. Who's to say our continued work wont be recognised financially when this is all said and done?

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

Did your read what I wrote? At all? As far as our paycheques are currently concerned it is business as usual. You are just coming across as jealous that people earn more than us.

[twiddledumb]

.

[twiddledumb]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

[Ren Hoëk]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

Good chat. Still not getting it. Still not listening. With people like you we truly are all f****d. Night night.

[Janet Brum]

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

Even if you were sarcastic, I feel for you, I`ve been struggling for years but recently I became smarter and informed myself and I realised life can be easier if I take a loan from our credit union commsave, pay all my debts and credit cards and pay commsave straight from my payslip at a low rate and low weekly payment, suddenly I had money left in my bank, increasing every week.
Then I went to a car dealer and bought a newer and better car for less than £100 per month for the next 5 years, much better than the old junk I had wich was a money pit, much cheaper insurance, low petrol costs, all the pros.

Also did a bit more OT each week and guess what, I`m in the 2500 per month bracket but I have a 2 beds and a decent car and I don`t struggle from pay check to paycheck.

Also, I`m not being sarcastic, no need, take my advice and better yourself or not.

[doob]

How are u taking home £2500 a month?? How much overtime do u do? U said on another thread u only earn £20,000 a year

[sindba]

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

Even if you were sarcastic, I feel for you, I`ve been struggling for years but recently I became smarter and informed myself and I realised life can be easier if I take a loan from our credit union commsave, pay all my debts and credit cards and pay commsave straight from my payslip at a low rate and low weekly payment, suddenly I had money left in my bank, increasing every week.
Then I went to a car dealer and bought a newer and better car for less than £100 per month for the next 5 years, much better than the old junk I had wich was a money pit, much cheaper insurance, low petrol costs, all the pros.

Also did a bit more OT each week and guess what, I`m in the 2500 per month bracket but I have a 2 beds and a decent car and I don`t struggle from pay check to paycheck.

Also, I`m not being sarcastic, no need, take my advice and better yourself or not.

"I became smarter"

Struggling people are just less smart are they?

Us low paid key workers have been hung out to dry by this Government. Cheered on by people who swallow the propaganda peddled by their friendly media outlets.

They've looked after the well paid, of course.

[Ren Hoëk]

This is not a normal situation, yet posties and other low paid staff are expected to go on as usual, a lot of us, including me living pay cheque to pay cheque with no savings. I cannot afford to save money in the bank, like how your telling me these bailout non essential workers can do with tax payers money their getting. Then your talking about having to pay for their cars and mortgages even though I just told you most banks are allowing customers to miss payments for the next few months. £30k a year gets you a lot farther than £20k especially when all you are doing is sitting at home being 'safe'.

Even if you were sarcastic, I feel for you, I`ve been struggling for years but recently I became smarter and informed myself and I realised life can be easier if I take a loan from our credit union commsave, pay all my debts and credit cards and pay commsave straight from my payslip at a low rate and low weekly payment, suddenly I had money left in my bank, increasing every week.
Then I went to a car dealer and bought a newer and better car for less than £100 per month for the next 5 years, much better than the old junk I had wich was a money pit, much cheaper insurance, low petrol costs, all the pros.

Also did a bit more OT each week and guess what, I`m in the 2500 per month bracket but I have a 2 beds and a decent car and I don`t struggle from pay check to paycheck.

Also, I`m not being sarcastic, no need, take my advice and better yourself or not.

"I became smarter"

Struggling people are just less smart are they?

Us low paid key workers have been hung out to dry by this Government. Cheered on by people who swallow the propaganda peddled by their friendly media outlets.

They've looked after the well paid, of course.

How have we been hung out to dry? Considering this thread is about money, Our finances haven't changed...

[Murdoch]

I believe my last reply to Twiddledumb more than covers the points you've made. Other than the government do not have the authority to force the banks to do that. Nor should they. We live in a liberal capitalist democracy and if we want to keep it that way and we do considering Brexit is on the horizon, we will want to be able to attract free market investment.

The government DOES have the power to negate the problems this will cause by making these furlough payments. It also signals the governments faith in the British Economies resilience to bounce back.

Parliament just passed a law that makes it illegal for us to go outside unless we have a good reason. Of course they could freeze the debt, even a holiday on repayments would have been better than putting the cost on the taxpayer.

I don't share your optimism that this is a short recession with a v-shaped recovery, and a quick bounce back. I think the Tories have enacted policies that will take the UK into a depression. We're extremely exposed already because of the extremely poor recovery after 2008, largely due to the decade long Tory obsession with austerity. The UK is £1.8 Trillion in debt before this current recession even began. We're still running a £25.5 billion deficit, and that's been over 10 years since the last recession. And as you mentioned, with the backdrop of Brexit on the horizon. The UK is in an extremely perilous position.

I will say, I appreciate you believe they're trying to save people's jobs, and everybody is hoping that in a few months everything bounces back to normal. My point is, what if it doesn't and the economy is in a downturn for 12-18 months. These policies are unaffordable, especially when many of the jobs they are saving, are going to be lost anyways. You'd be better off, paying a much smaller maintenance benefit, closer to state pension value, and then stimulating the economy once the threat of covid-19 has passed.

At the moment, they're paying insane benefits to keep the status quo, when there can be no status quo. The market value of these jobs currently is zero, and this could remain the case for a long time.

[twiddledumb]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

Good chat. Still not getting it. Still not listening. With people like you we truly are all f****d. Night night.

Oh I get your point, you think the richer you are the more money you deserve from the government or should I say the tax payer, because it seems that you think the richer you are the more you need to spend because you have a higher standard of living. Then you call me jealous for saying that if the government want to hand out money then it should be for everyone and it should be the same amount £1000 or something like that or nothing at all. Basically you think the low paid should be getting screwed while the rich get everything AGAIN. Anyway good night Rico, go count the millions in your bunker.

[Ren Hoëk]

I believe my last reply to Twiddledumb more than covers the points you've made. Other than the government do not have the authority to force the banks to do that. Nor should they. We live in a liberal capitalist democracy and if we want to keep it that way and we do considering Brexit is on the horizon, we will want to be able to attract free market investment.

The government DOES have the power to negate the problems this will cause by making these furlough payments. It also signals the governments faith in the British Economies resilience to bounce back.

Parliament just passed a law that makes it illegal for us to go outside unless we have a good reason. Of course they could freeze the debt, even a holiday on repayments would have been better than putting the cost on the taxpayer.

I don't share your optimism that this is a short recession with a v-shaped recovery, and a quick bounce back. I think the Tories have enacted policies that will take the UK into a depression. We're extremely exposed already because of the extremely poor recovery after 2008, largely due to the decade long Tory obsession with austerity. The UK is £1.8 Trillion in debt before this current recession even began. We're still running a £25.5 billion deficit, and that's been over 10 years since the last recession. And as you mentioned, with the backdrop of Brexit on the horizon. The UK is in an extremely perilous position.

I will say, I appreciate you believe they're trying to save people's jobs, and everybody is hoping that in a few months everything bounces back to normal. My point is, what if it doesn't and the economy is in a downturn for 12-18 months. These policies are unaffordable, especially when many of the jobs they are saving, are going to be lost anyways. You'd be better off, paying a much smaller maintenance benefit, closer to state pension value, and then stimulating the economy once the threat of covid-19 has passed.

At the moment, they're paying insane benefits to keep the status quo, when there can be no status quo. The market value of these jobs currently is zero, and this could remain the case for a long time.

There is a strong chance we are heading for recession but I believe the government has absolutely done the right thing to mitigate its depth. This will not last forever. We will come out of it. What the government has essentially done is placed a temporary pause button on the sectors of the economy effected. To do nothing and have wholesale bankruptcies and house repossessions would be far far worse and totally unnecessary. Especially considering they believe this will come in waves. It is likely we will return to a state of semi normality and then be placed back into restricted living. It is surely better that companies are able to keep trained staff on furlough ready to return to their positions when the time is right.

Imagine a company like RM had to let everyone go and then re-hire an entire new workforce. It just doesn't make sense to do that. We work in an industry that doesn't really need much training either. For more specialist roles that would be incredibly disruptive for a country that wants to get back on its feet as quickly as possible.

[Ren Hoëk]

@Ren Hoëk I might as well be talking to Rico Back, in fact, are you by any chance in a bunker underneath a castle in Switzerland right now?

Good chat. Still not getting it. Still not listening. With people like you we truly are all f****d. Night night.

Oh I get your point, you think the richer you are the more money you deserve from the government or should I say the tax payer, because it seems that you think the richer you are the more you need to spend because you have a higher standard of living. Then you call me jealous for saying that if the government want to hand out money then it should be for everyone and it should be the same amount £1000 or something like that or nothing at all. Basically you think the low paid should be getting screwed while the rich get everything AGAIN. Anyway good night Rico, go count the millions in your bunker.

As I thought. Clinically stupid.